Network Vision/LTE - Chicago Market

[mhammett]

Are they doing multi-user MIMO? Are they doing null forming? In my world, a chain is an individual transmission so one of the transmitters is called a chain. A chain transmits one data stream, whether unique or duplicate. Unique streams add capacity. Duplicate streams add resilience.

 

Do they do Mu-MIMO or null forming yet?

[WhiteWidow]

I'm out in Yorkville 60560, a bit south of Aurora. I have a constant issue of dropping to 3g and being stuck there when I know there is LTE. I'm on the N5 with the latest Lollypop radio. How can I get this to stop

Edited November 15, 2014 by WhiteWidow

[kyle_4thousand]

B26 is coming in a lot stronger in the NW burbs. I finally get LTE in the basement! Not sure if its the fact that all the leaves have fallen or if we're seeing some more optimization 

[S4GRU]

Just to help the conversation regarding deployed WiMax, I had a friend who used to work for Clearwire managing their network tell me that almost 90% of all Clearwire sites have only one 10MHz WiMax carrier.  And most of the remaining 10% have only two.  Very few sites have three or four WiMax carriers.

 

WiMax typically only gets in the way in markets where Sprint has only BRS or only EBS spectrum, and then when only deploying multiple 20MHz LTE carriers.  Sprint can deploy one 20MHz LTE channel in every market without doing anything with WiMax.

[lilotimz]

Just to help the conversation regarding deployed WiMax, I had a friend who used to work for Clearwire managing their network tell me that almost 90% of all Clearwire sites have only one 10MHz WiMax carrier.  And most of the remaining 10% have only two.  Very few sites have three or four WiMax carriers.

 

WiMax typically only gets in the way in markets where Sprint has only BRS or only EBS spectrum, and then when only deploying multiple 20MHz LTE carriers.  Sprint can deploy one 20MHz LTE channel in every market without doing anything with WiMax.

 

In mixed mode operations Huawei and Samsung equipment can only do 1 wimax + 1 TDD-LTE carrier of 10mhz + 20 mhz. 

[S4GRU]

In mixed mode operations Huawei and Samsung equipment can only do 1 wimax + 1 TDD-LTE carrier of 10mhz + 20 mhz. 

 

I was speaking of spectrum only, but I acknowledge your point.

[AMD64]

 

 

On my way from DeKalb to Rochelle I picked up B41 last night .is this a signal check bogus/ error ?

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xa74omhw8m5wqre/Screenshot_2014-11-18-21-35-30.png?dl=0

[Dkoellerwx]

On my way from DeKalb to Rochelle I picked up B41 last night .is this a signal check bogus/ error ?

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xa74omhw8m5wqre/Screenshot_2014-11-18-21-35-30.png?dl=0

Looks legit.

 

Sent from my LG G3

[Vince]

On my way from DeKalb to Rochelle I picked up B41 last night .is this a signal check bogus/ error ?

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xa74omhw8m5wqre/Screenshot_2014-11-18-21-35-30.png?dl=0

I posted about this tower about a month ago somewhere around this forum. It was one tower that stretched about 15 miles. Nearly from the Dekalb oasis to almost Rochelle. It was fantastic.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

[AMD64]

I posted about this tower about a month ago somewhere around this forum. It was one tower that stretched about 15 miles. Nearly from the Dekalb oasis to almost Rochelle. It was fantastic.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

Isn't sprint 310120 B25?

[saywhatman]

Sprint's B41 with the new 8T8R antennas (not CLWR) broadcasts on PLMN 310-120 just like B25

[gusherb]

I spent the day in Chesterton and Portage and thought with B26 on, and should be optimized by now that these two places would have had its LTE gaps filled in and found this to not be the case. I found myself on 3G fairly frequently, sites so few and far between that even B26 isn't filling in all the gaps. I found this to still be the case in Valpo yesterday too. OTOH I found B41 when I was closer to each site!

[Vince]

I spent the day in Chesterton and Portage and thought with B26 on, and should be optimized by now that these two places would have had its LTE gaps filled in and found this to not be the case. I found myself on 3G fairly frequently, sites so few and far between that even B26 isn't filling in all the gaps. I found this to still be the case in Valpo yesterday too. OTOH I found B41 when I was closer to each site!

I've noticed zero difference in b26 since it launched in March/April. It's really sad that they're not focusing on the Chicago market.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

[gusherb]

I've noticed zero difference in b26 since it launched in March/April. It's really sad that they're not focusing on the Chicago market.

Sent from my iPhone 6

The only difference I've noticed is from the leaves falling off the trees. Now that I've brought it up and you mentioned that, I'm doubting that optimization has occurred widespread if at all. I still have all the same LTE deadspots I've had since B26 went live, I've just gotten used to them and stopped noticing. Perhaps theyve been waiting for 8T8R to be live across the market, which it appears to be considering it's ubiquity in my travels across the area. Thinking back to my visit to KC in May, we're close to what it was like over there but not quite yet.

[Cubbiefan82]

The only difference I've noticed is from the leaves falling off the trees. Now that I've brought it up and you mentioned that, I'm doubting that optimization has occurred widespread if at all. I still have all the same LTE deadspots I've had since B26 went live, I've just gotten used to them and stopped noticing. Perhaps theyve been waiting for 8T8R to be live across the market, which it appears to be considering it's ubiquity in my travels across the area. Thinking back to my visit to KC in May, we're close to what it was like over there but not quite yet.

I hope they aren't waiting for that, they could totally be adjusting and powering b26 to what levels that need to match the 3g coverage and adjusting the tilt before all the 8t8r come online. I wonder if they are still having issues with the short supply of network integration techs/engineers.

[Vince]

The only difference I've noticed is from the leaves falling off the trees. Now that I've brought it up and you mentioned that, I'm doubting that optimization has occurred widespread if at all. I still have all the same LTE deadspots I've had since B26 went live, I've just gotten used to them and stopped noticing. Perhaps theyve been waiting for 8T8R to be live across the market, which it appears to be considering it's ubiquity in my travels across the area. Thinking back to my visit to KC in May, we're close to what it was like over there but not quite yet.

That's two separate animals. General/extended LTE coverage matters (to me) more than getting 30mbps in a few spots. And having those bands switch properly is important. Most people don't care about 30, 55, 80mbps, or whatever speeds they're receiving. Nowadays, it's: "does my phone do what I need it to do, when I want it to, every time" and, "do I have LTE?" You really only need 1mbps-ish to browse social networking, and a solid 3mbps to fire up a YouTube video quickly. It's when that average customer looks down at their phone and sees the dreaded "3G" logo. That's when the Sprint smack talk begins: "I'm always on 3G, no LTE here, bla bla." And like you, Im experiencing the same LTE drop in the same spot, day after day. Maybe I'm just picky, and expecting to never drop LTE in the area because I know what Sprint is deploying and I know what band 26 is capable of. That's not an unrealistic view considering the other 3 providers can achieve that. I'm not trying to be snooty, but Sprint should have had the Chicago network tuned and rocking shortly after launching band 26. The field engineers are in short supply? They need to be here and other large cities (where the people are) first.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

[lilotimz]

I've noticed zero difference in b26 since it launched in March/April. It's really sad that they're not focusing on the Chicago market.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

 

A city with practically all sites with LTE 800 live, 2nd carrier PCS in abundance, and hundreds of band 41 sites live is Sprint not focusing on the chicago market?

 

There are markets with metro pops of millions still waiting for LTE 800 and LTE 1900 with just a handful of band 41 sites or none at all. So before you complain about them not focusing on your market understand that there are millions who are in areas where even a 2nd PCS carrier would be a godsend and LTE 800 on whatever power setting is basically unfathomable. You're better off than millions of subscribers as it is. 

 

 

-snip snip-

 

Most people don't care about 30, 55, 80mbps, or whatever speeds they're receiving. Nowadays, it's: "does my phone do what I need it to do, when I want it to, every time" and, "do I have LTE?"

 

-snip snip-

Sent from my iPhone 6

 

 

Exactly.

 

This is Sprints biggest issue and Marcelo has indicated it as well in his recent statements. Hopefully Marcelo and Co does follow through and fix it as unreliability  is one of the biggest reasons for Sprints subscriber lost other than data speeds. 

[Vince]

A city with practically all sites with LTE 800 live, 2nd carrier PCS in abundance, and hundreds of band 41 sites live is Sprint not focusing on the chicago market?

 

There are markets with metro pops of millions still waiting for LTE 800 and LTE 1900 with just a handful of band 41 sites or none at all. So before you complain about them not focusing on your market understand that there are millions who are in areas where even a 2nd PCS carrier would be a godsend and LTE 800 on whatever power setting is basically unfathomable. You're better off than millions of subscribers as it is.

You bolded my quote out of context. I was referring to band 26, specifically.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

[gusherb]

A city with practically all sites with LTE 800 live, 2nd carrier PCS in abundance, and hundreds of band 41 sites live is Sprint not focusing on the chicago market?

 

There are markets with metro pops of millions still waiting for LTE 800 and LTE 1900 with just a handful of band 41 sites or none at all. So before you complain about them not focusing on your market understand that there are millions who are in areas where even a 2nd PCS carrier would be a godsend and LTE 800 on whatever power setting is basically unfathomable. You're better off than millions of subscribers as it is. 

 

 

 

 

 

It can be a bit alarming at times that T-Mobile is doing a much better job filling in all areas with band 4 (with virtually same site spacing and density as Sprint) then Sprint is doing with band 26. The thing is, unoptimized B26 hasn't really been a whole lot better then B25, and as of right now the only thing it's really helping with is capacity and some indoor coverage issues. 

 

We're very glad that they've got B26 and B41 plus a second B25 carrier live across the market just about, but now we're waiting on optimization so we can actually take advantage of B26's capabilities....and we've been waiting awhile... 

[Joeynach]

It's when that average customer looks down at their phone and sees the dreaded "3G" logo. That's when the Sprint smack talk begins: "I'm always on 3G, no LTE here, bla bla." And like you, Im experiencing the same LTE drop in the same spot, day after day. Maybe I'm just picky, and expecting to never drop LTE in the area because I know what Sprint is deploying and I know what band 26 is capable of. .

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

I think you pretty much nailed it here. For most of us its about network experience, "does my phone do what I want it to do when I need it to (which is all the time)". What the specific speed is, I don't really care, sure its cool to brag when you see some 40Mbps pop up on a speed test, but it doesn't change your experience with your phone. When you see that dreaded 3G icon you know your network experience is going to be sub-par. You know your apps are going to be sluggish and possibly timeout, web browsing will be slow, that weather radar ain't gonna load, your streaming media is going to buffer or drop, etc etc. That's just the way it is with Sprint, even after NV has come and gone, most would agree (in Chicago at least) that the 3G experience is pretty sub-par.

 

So to me that's what makes time on LTE even more important with Sprint than with other carriers. When you drop off LTE with ATT and TMO you get HSPA+ (or what their BS rhetoric calls "4G"), and by all accounts the performance of that network meets most of our network experience standards as data speeds are typically reported in the 1-6Mbps range. So for Sprint, filling in the LTE holes, or NV optimization, has to be a top priority, and much more so for them than for their competitors based on the reason above.

 

I keep going back to what many of the guru's here have told me many times. There are lots of carriers and network experiences out there, and we have to do what is best for our own standards and desires. Sprint's network isn't perfect, even in mature post NV markets as were finding out, but we choose to stay with them for our own reasons; could be cost, could be the belief in the promised future state of the network, could be a contract thing, could be because we are too lazy to switch.

[Joeynach]

Exactly.

 

This is Sprints biggest issue and Marcelo has indicated it as well in his recent statements. Hopefully Marcelo and Co does follow through and fix it as unreliability  is one of the biggest reasons for Sprints subscriber lost other than data speeds. 

I still think that goes back to my statement about the state of Sprint's vs. their competitor's non LTE networks.  There is a big gap in network performance for a Sprint user on 3G and their competitors with HSPA+ or even HSPA.  Whether they call it 3G or 4G for marketing rhetoric I don't really care, I consider all those 3G networks.  So that's what makes being on LTE as a Sprint user so freaking important and why there is so much emphasis on being connected to LTE instead of 3G.  And based on your statement it sounds like Marcelo and Co. are seeing the same movie we are seeing!

[kyle_4thousand]

Just chiming in. From observations in the last month or so my network experience has improved substantially. Call it moving to the iPhone 6, network optimization, 8t8r, or even the leaves falling.. But In my general area I don't fall back to 3G very often anymore at all, and when I do it sticks me right back on LTE within a minute or less.

 

Sure it looks like there is still some work to be done by the observations of other members who contribute to this thread, but comparing to where we were 2 years ago, even 1 year ago.. I would say we have a top notch market, and the root metrics scores are beginning to show that. It will only get better from here on out folks, just remember that!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6 on the Now Network

[bucdenny]

Be happy guys.  Come to San Diego it's day and night.  We still waiting on single carrier B25 in most places!  Chicago has everything!

[gnoj]

I agree with the previous comments. As much as I'd like to see additional B25 & B41 carriers lit up, finishing the deployment and optimization of B26 should be priority #1.

 

To 90%+ of subs, LTE=good, 3G=bad. They hardly ever run speedtests or know or care what particular frequency their on. Thanks to marketing, past experiences with the network, and the poor labeling on phones that also report 1x as just "3G", this perception will hold even if Ev-DO has in reality improved to be quite usable for most things, as it has for most of the day in the areas I frequent.

 

The (likely related) problem of phones failing to handover or stick to B26 and instead getting kicked randomly to 3G makes Sprint look bad and puts all that new B26 to waste. Along with general coverage optimization, this is also something that will need to be 100% fixed before meaningful VoLTE deployment can begin.

[Joeynach]

Be happy guys.  Come to San Diego it's day and night.  We still waiting on single carrier B25 in most places!  Chicago has everything!

Dude are you serious.  Were 3.5 years into NV, its almost finished (well phase 1 that is).  If I was in SD I would have just switched already.  To each his own.