ImmerStark Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I've been hearing a lot of news lately about the drought in California being past the critical stage and the likelihood of a large chunk of the population being forced to relocate when the ground water is exhausted next year. It occurred to me that this would throw a major wrench in network planning and the allocation of resources. So, any speculation or insight on the how that will be handled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWMich4G Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Did you read this article on April 1st? Desalinated water only costs about twice as much as fresh water. They'll just build more plants if they need more water. Even if they went to 100% ocean water it would only cost a few hundred dollars more a year per person for residential use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrknowitall526 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I read in the newspaper yesterday that the average Californian uses 77 gallons of water per person per day...that seems insane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centermedic Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I read in the newspaper yesterday that the average Californian uses 77 gallons of water per person per day...that seems insane! If they broke that down as total water use and assigned a per person average then that makes sense since California is a big agriculture state. I find it hard to believe that the average individual uses that much water per day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas L. Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Uhhhhhh If a large chunk of California's population has to evacuate, you better believe Sprint and the whole country are going to have bigger things to worry about than their cell phones, like where they're going to get a lot of their food and where to put 30 million refugees. That said, it's not going to happen, at least not in the next decade or so, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas L. Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I read in the newspaper yesterday that the average Californian uses 77 gallons of water per person per day...that seems insane! The average American uses 80-100 gallons per day according to the USGS. The average shower alone is ~ 20 gallons of water. The average toilet flush is ~2 gallons, an average of five flushes a day per person. Then there's tooth brushing, hand washing, cooking, cleaning. We use WAY more water than we are prepared to admit, as a nation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubajwd Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm 66 years old and in my remaining life time I fully expect to see: 1)Salton Sea to go back to desert as it was prior to the Colo River flood that created it in the early 1900's; divereted Color River to SS will stop 2)Lake Powell will be fully or mostly drained to stop losses to evaporation and to keep Lake Mead from dropping further 3)Colorado River water trickling into the Mexican desert will cease 4) Agriculture in the SoCal regions of Yuma and elsewhere will cease as no more Colorado River water will be diverted to that region..it will go back to being desert as it once was 5)California agriculture in total will have to cut back water usage by 50% at least to prevent further eradication of the acquafers and the devastating consequences of their elimination 6)Food prices likely to do a double over the next 10 years for all of us.. Gov Brown ordered a 25% cutback of 12-15% of the water use in the state exempting agriculture which acounts for 80% of state water usage; failure to do the painful math now only means a lot more pain down the road for all of us....so yes , I'm worried about being able to use a cell phone going forward since available funds most likely will be used for food & water Have a good day!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irev210 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm 66 years old and in my remaining life time I fully expect to see: 1)Salton Sea to go back to desert as it was prior to the Colo River flood that created it in the early 1900's; divereted Color River to SS will stop 2)Lake Powell will be fully or mostly drained to stop losses to evaporation and to keep Lake Mead from dropping further 3)Colorado River water trickling into the Mexican desert will cease 4) Agriculture in the SoCal regions of Yuma and elsewhere will cease as no more Colorado River water will be diverted to that region..it will go back to being desert as it once was 5)California agriculture in total will have to cut back water usage by 50% at least to prevent further eradication of the acquafers and the devastating consequences of their elimination 6)Food prices likely to do a double over the next 10 years for all of us.. Gov Brown ordered a 25% cutback of 12-15% of the water use in the state exempting agriculture which acounts for 80% of state water usage; failure to do the painful math now only means a lot more pain down the road for all of us....so yes , I'm worried about being able to use a cell phone going forward since available funds most likely will be used for food & water Have a good day!! 1)Salton Sea to go back to desert as it was prior to the Colo River flood that created it in the early 1900's; divereted Color River to SS will stop The Salton Sea was created from agricultural runoff. Basically, it was created because farmers used to be horribly inefficient watering their crops. It's shrinking because farmers no longer waste as much water. It's 100% man-made... 2)Lake Powell will be fully or mostly drained to stop losses to evaporation and to keep Lake Mead from dropping further 3)Colorado River water trickling into the Mexican desert will cease There are water compacts that regulate how the Colorado river is shared. Please review Minute 316 and the colorado river compact: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_River_Compact 4) Agriculture in the SoCal regions of Yuma and elsewhere will cease as no more Colorado River water will be diverted to that region..it will go back to being desert as it once was Again, read the Colorado River Compact above. 5)California agriculture in total will have to cut back water usage by 50% at least to prevent further eradication of the acquafers and the devastating consequences of their elimination Well, proper aquifer management laws were finally put into place in California. They'll be phased in over the next decade or so. 6)Food prices likely to do a double over the next 10 years for all of us. Food prices will continue to go up but it won't be primarily driven by California drought. I would suspect specific crops will double in price as farmers in California pay more for water. Gov Brown ordered a 25% cutback of 12-15% of the water use in the state exempting agriculture which acounts for 80% of state water usage; failure to do the painful math now only means a lot more pain down the road for all of us....so yes , I'm worried about being able to use a cell phone going forward since available funds most likely will be used for food & water Have a good day!! I think people tend to read the news and develop very interesting ideas. Thank you for sharing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irev210 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I've been hearing a lot of news lately about the drought in California being past the critical stage and the likelihood of a large chunk of the population being forced to relocate when the ground water is exhausted next year. It occurred to me that this would throw a major wrench in network planning and the allocation of resources. So, any speculation or insight on the how that will be handled? I suggest you visit the California Department of Water Resources CDEC website. http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/resapp/getResGraphsMain.action Things are bad, particularly for those communities that do live on ground water but for most of California, they are connected to the California State Water Project or the Colorado River. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4GRU Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I thought the Salton Sea was created by the Colorado River flooding and overflowing its banks. And running to a low spot below sea level and settling. That's what I was taught in California Geography as a kid. It probably is sustained by overflow of agriculture irrigation, though. Using Moto X² on Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irev210 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I thought the Salton Sea was created by the Colorado River flooding and overflowing its banks. And running to a low spot below sea level and settling. That's what I was taught in California Geography as a kid. It probably is sustained by overflow of agriculture irrigation, though. Using Moto X² on Tapatalk Well, it created a giant hole in the earth that was an empty pocket (kinda like many desert low elevations). The Salton Sea was created between 1905 and 1907 when the Colorado River broke through diversion canals in the irrigation system in Imperial County. It would have dried up but agricultural runoff kept it fed. www.water.ca.gov/pubs/conservation/salton_sea_history/history.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4GRU Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Well, it created a giant hole in the earth that was an empty pocket (kinda like many desert low elevations). The Salton Sea was created between 1905 and 1907 when the Colorado River broke through diversion canals in the irrigation system in Imperial County. It would have dried up but agricultural runoff kept it fed. www.water.ca.gov/pubs/conservation/salton_sea_history/history.pdf Going back in reading the history, it was the flood of the canals from the Colorado River that overwhelmed the dams and dikes and pushed its volume up significantly to be a large sustainable lake. Before that, the lake was much smaller and never expected to be sustained perennially. So both answers are technically correct. Without the historic floods, there would be no large modern Salton Sea. Without the canals and runoff, there would be no large modern Salton Sea. Using Moto X² on Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubajwd Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Not to be pedantic on the Salton Sea..it was just one of my predictions: the Salton Sea was created accidentily by engineers trying to control the flow of water; they made hydrological mistakes that allowed the Colorado River to flow there unabated for two years;the compact covenants that irev210 mentioned will be cast aside IMHO to sustain the most people in the American Southwest over the course of the next decade or so; people tend to fight over sex, money and power... but they go to WAR over WATER...and old western saying...I'm sorry the die is cast on this one...most of what I stated is simply going to happen one way or another.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irev210 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Not to be pedantic on the Salton Sea..it was just one of my predictions: the Salton Sea was created accidentily by engineers trying to control the flow of water; they made hydrological mistakes that allowed the Colorado River to flow there unabated for two years;the compact covenants that irev210 mentioned will be cast aside IMHO to sustain the most people in the American Southwest over the course of the next decade or so; people tend to fight over sex, money and power... but they go to WAR over WATER...and old western saying...I'm sorry the die is cast on this one...most of what I stated is simply going to happen one way or another.. http://poseidonwater.com/our_projects/all_projects/carlsbad_project Water will just become more expensive, that's all. And not catastrophically so. So, right now, in California water can be as much as $1200/acrefoot or so (325,851 gallons), so about a third of a penny per gallon. Desalination costs between $2,000-$2,200/AF. So even if water costs double to 2/3rds of a cent per gallon, I don't personally view that as a significant burden on income. Let's look at San Francisco - now they have their own water supply that is very drought resilient but let's assume they had no water supply and decided to desal all of their water needs. The average per capita usage of water in San Francisco is among the lowest in the Country at 44 gallons per capita. Let's assume the average family of four uses 44 gallons each, so 176 gallons a day. That comes out to $1.144 in usage per day or $34.32/month in water costs. Assume some other overhead costs (O&M, customer service, etc) and we are at about $60-70/month. As a percentage of median household income in California, that's pretty inexpensive in my opinion. Blend that against $1,000/acrefoot water (say 50% of supply) and you are at even less. Again, bottom line - California isn't running out of water. It's just becoming more expensive. It seems likely that people will be less willing to foot the bill for nice grass lawns when that costs hundreds of dollars a month. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiWavelength Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 You guys are wrong on the dates. "The Salton Sea" was created in 2002. I saw it at a film festival around that time back when I was in film school. Regardless, this is an odd, sensationalist topic. The idea that there will be some mass evacuation or exodus of millions of Californians is preposterous. That will not happen. Rather, if water conditions worsen, there may be a steady trickle -- much like the Colorado River itself -- of people leaving the state, enough to effect negative population change. It could amount to several million people over several years, probably a decade or more. Moreover, any migration away from California would not be received in just one area. Many emigrants could go back to Mexico, taking them out of the national equation. Likely domestic destinations could include Las Vegas, the Valley of the Sun, the Willamette Valley, the Puget Sound area, the Wasatch Front, the Rocky Mountain Front Range, and Albuquerque. Those long have been popular spots for ex Californians, so that is nothing new. It is not as if Portland suddenly is going to swell by three million relocations from California. That "contingency" need not be a concern. In the end, what is the impetus for this thread? Do Okies have some sort of reverse Dust Bowl fantasy that consumes and empties California? AJ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmerStark Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 Honestly I was just bored and my mind was wandering. The complete lack of meaningful network vision activity in my entire state has left me with much free time to fill ;-) Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubajwd Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Sorry AJ its on me...I fanned this one..my bad..now back to your originally scheduled programming..water optional..beer aplenty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floorguy Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Honestly I was just bored and my mind was wandering. The complete lack of meaningful network vision activity in my entire state has left me with much free time to fill ;-) Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk i know how you feel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centermedic Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 The average American uses 80-100 gallons per day according to the USGS. The average shower alone is ~ 20 gallons of water. The average toilet flush is ~2 gallons, an average of five flushes a day per person. Then there's tooth brushing, hand washing, cooking, cleaning. We use WAY more water than we are prepared to admit, as a nation. Some research indicates that it is not as clean cut as you make it. The figure of 80=-100 gallons a day is accurate. However, that figure is for domestic water use which includes dish washing, clothes washing and lawn watering. Additionally, the average per person use varies widely depending on where one lives. http://www.epa.gov/WaterSense/our_water/tomorrow_beyond.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc_gusto Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Recycled waste water is even cheaper than desalinised. ???? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menecer Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Get Bill gates and his water purifier to go to California instead of 3rd world countries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesinclair Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 A couple of years ago, Georgia was in a serious drought. Many towns ran out of water and had to get daily deliveries. Same in texas. Las vegas is spending billions to build a "straw" to suck out the very last drop of Lake Mead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacinJosh Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Las vegas is spending billions to build a "straw" to suck out the very last drop of Lake Mead. That because the State of Nevada won't let them steal it from Nye County and Lincoln County, NV. Sent from Josh's iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk 3.1.1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubajwd Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 A couple of years ago, Georgia was in a serious drought. Many towns ran out of water and had to get daily deliveries. Same in texas. Las vegas is spending billions to build a "straw" to suck out the very last drop of Lake Mead. Actually the take of water by Las Vegas is miniscule compared to the water drawn by California (4.4 million acre ft/yr and Arizona (2.8 million acre ft/yr; Nevada gets a paltry .3 million acre ft/yr a factor of 15 times less than that taken by Cali.... the current LV "straw" is only 20 ft or so below the surface; the new straw insures that Southern Nevada will get at least the paltry amount agreed to in 1928.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawvega Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 That because the State of Nevada won't let them steal it from Nye County and Lincoln County, NV. Sent from Josh's iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk 3.1.1 Perhaps not at the moment because it's not absolutely necessary. However, if push comes to shove, whoever's sitting in the governor's mansion won't let Clark County whither just because Nye, Esmerelda, White Pine and the other rural counties don't want to share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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