1184 replies to this topic

[S4GRU]

Did they announce this change with pulling the 2500 from NV?

Why was this done specifically?

Do you not recall the huge uproar when Sprint all but wrote out Clearwire in the October 7th conference? They not only threw Clearwire out of Network Vision, they virtually were throwing them to the wolves and nearly bankrupted the company.

Also, where 2500 was shown in early NV schematics, it was not a contract saying that 2500 was definitely going in Network Vision. It was just demonstrating the multi-modal capabilities of hosting other spectrum. Sprint wanted to include Clearwire in NV if possible, but they were never going to pay Clearwire's way. It was always up for negotiation. It just never was negotiated in. By October 7th, things got so bad between Sprint and Clearwire, they both announced they were going it alone with LTE without each other.

I have never seen a real engineering or planning document with 2500 on Network Vision. Only early schematics.

- Robert

[Sgt. Slaughter]

Do you not recall the huge uproar when Sprint all but wrote out Clearwire in the October 7th conference? They not only threw Clearwire out of Network Vision, they virtually were throwing them to the wolves and nearly bankrupted the company.

Also, where 2500 was shown in early NV schematics, it was not a contract saying that 2500 was definitely going in Network Vision. It was just demonstrating the multi-modal capabilities of hosting other spectrum. Sprint wanted to include Clearwire in NV if possible, but they were never going to pay Clearwire's way. It was always up for negotiation. It just never was negotiated in. By October 7th, things got so bad between Sprint and Clearwire, they both announced they were going it alone with LTE without each other.

I have never seen a real engineering or planning document with 2500 on Network Vision. Only early schematics.

- Robert

yeah i remember it I edited my post saying that date sounded familiar. lol

I completely understood not mentioning them b/c at the time they didn't know and you can't start saying Clear moving to LTE b/c then any WiMax sales from then on would of been killed so it was smart to just keep saying they were supporting WiMax till 2015, to not get an uproar from customers...

And yes the early schematics are what I was referring to btw. I never took the whole PC as a way that Clearwire wasn't involved in NV at all. Completely besides the whole LTE thing, I always thought that since on the same tower that when NV cabinets were installed at those towers that the 2.5GHz from Clear would be routed into those cabinets b/c of the early schematics shown. Makes no sense at all to NOT do that regardless of WiMax/LTE or whatever.

[S4GRU]

yeah i remember it I edited my post saying that date sounded familiar. lol

I completely understood not mentioning them b/c at the time they didn't know and you can't start saying Clear moving to LTE b/c then any WiMax sales from then on would of been killed so it was smart to just keep saying they were supporting WiMax till 2015, to not get an uproar from customers...

And yes the early schematics are what I was referring to btw. I never took the whole PC as a way that Clearwire wasn't involved in NV at all. Completely besides the whole LTE thing, I always thought that since on the same tower that when NV cabinets were installed at those towers that the 2.5GHz from Clear would be routed into those cabinets b/c of the early schematics shown. Makes no sense at all to NOT do that regardless of WiMax/LTE or whatever.

NV sites are spaced apart based on 1900 propagation characteristics. Even if Clearwire was on every NV tower, their coverage would look like a bunch of islands covering a city. They would still need to come back in and infill between NV towers.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

NV sites are spaced apart based on 1900 propagation characteristics. Even if Clearwire was on every NV tower, their coverage would look like a bunch of islands covering a city. They would still need to come back in and infill between NV towers.

True. Wasn't really trying to say they would come back and add the 2.5 on every site, though I know it kinda read like that. Really just meant that in future Clear would be coming to some sites to add coverage in general. Regardless it all depends on the following being true or not.

So the when on a tower that already has the 2.5GHz from Clear it will NOT be run into that same NV cabinet when they do the upgrade at sites?? If this is a NO then, my whole thought on them doing WiMax towers/towers in most popular areas is out the window.

In all honesty it doesn't matter a bit anyway as the WiMax locations likely coincide with the most population dense areas anyway and thats likely how they are hitting this so they can come out the gates quick and say they cover Xmillion people already with the fewest locations done.
Though I am interested in the 2.5GHz being run in the NV cabinet or not b/c if not then it means the advantages of NV will not translate to that band at all ever and I wonder why they would make that decision...

Edited by Sgt. Slaughter, 24 February 2012 - 02:15 PM.

[S4GRU]

True. Wasn't really trying to say they would come back and add the 2.5 on every site, though I know it kinda read like that. Really just meant that in future Clear would be coming to some sites to add coverage in general. Regardless it all depends on the following being true or not.

So the when on a tower that already has the 2.5GHz from Clear it will NOT be run into that same NV cabinet when they do the upgrade at sites?? If this is a NO then, my whole thought on them doing WiMax towers/towers in most popular areas is out the window.

In all honesty it doesn't matter a bit anyway as the WiMax locations likely coincide with the most population dense areas anyway and thats likely how they are hitting this so they can come out the gates quick and say they cover Xmillion people already with the fewest locations done.
Though I am interested in the 2.5GHz being run in the NV cabinet or not b/c if not then it means the advantages of NV will not translate to that band at all ever and I wonder why they would make that decision...

I think the biggest issue with Clearwire participating in Network Vision...is who's going to pay for it? Sprint doesn't have the funds to add $3-$4 Billion to its NV costs to include Clearwire on every NV tower. And Clearwire has even less money. That's what started the whole bru-ha-ha between Sprint and Clearwire (so I've heard). Sprint really wanted Clearwire on board in NV, but not willing to give them a free ride. Clearwire wouldn't accept anything less than a free ride and held their spectrum hostage. Hesse called their bluff and divorced from them publicly on October 7th. Then they both paid dearly by Wall Street and tech media attacks until they both relented and kissed and made up.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

I think the biggest issue with Clearwire participating in Network Vision...is who's going to pay for it? Sprint doesn't have the funds to add $3-$4 Billion to its NV costs to include Clearwire on every NV tower. And Clearwire has even less money. That's what started the whole bru-ha-ha between Sprint and Clearwire (so I've heard). Sprint really wanted Clearwire on board in NV, but not willing to give them a free ride. Clearwire wouldn't accept anything less than a free ride and held their spectrum hostage. Hesse called their bluff and divorced from them publicly on October 7th. Then they both paid dearly by Wall Street and tech media attacks until they both relented and kissed and made up.

yeah i get the whole not on every tower thing, but the NV cabinets being installed on the current WiMax towers. Will 2.5 be run through those switching cabinets or will they stay in their separate cabinet like they are now?

[S4GRU]

yeah i get the whole not on every tower thing, but the NV cabinets being installed on the current WiMax towers. Will 2.5 be run through those switching cabinets or will they stay in their separate cabinet like they are now?

Sprint CDMA and Clearwire WiMax are only co-located together on less than 40% of WiMax sites. I would guess that WiMax would remain separate, but I cannot say with certainty until I see NV Site Drawings where a WiMax site also exists.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

Sprint CDMA and Clearwire WiMax are only co-located together on less than 40% of WiMax sites. I would guess that WiMax would remain separate, but I cannot say with certainty until I see NV Site Drawings where a WiMax site also exists.

Okay thanks!

Would love to see any kind of near "official" diagrams on how its wired up if thats at all near possible in the future...

[kustu82]

When they do work at a tower is there a certain sequence that it will be done. Just curious, because when I was driving to the airport today (I live in KC) I noticed several towers that had the radio behind the antenna, but there was an antenna right next to it without a radio directly behind it.

I remember from the Lawrence drawings this looked like the case like it was done in phases. So my guess these towers are ready they just have to turn on the new antennas and remove the old, or am I completely missing the mark.

[Kevster1321]

They have been doing fiber backhaul upgrades on cell site right now. my question is the ones that aren't showing upgrades (network.sprint.com) on the map they will still get the upgraded backhaul when NV hits.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

Kevster1321, on 24 February 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

They have been doing fiber backhaul upgrades on cell site right now. my question is the ones that aren't showing upgrades (network.sprint.com) on the map they will still get the upgraded backhaul when NV hits.

Fiber/microwave backhaul is not being done to cell sites until the site is having NV tower upgrade.

The stuff on the website u referenced is NOT fiber its only bundled T1 lines being used as patch work temporarily to help the area get by till NV upgrades are done.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

[pyroscott]

Sgt. Slaughter, on 24 February 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Fiber/microwave backhaul is not being done to cell sites until the site is having NV tower upgrade.

The stuff on the website u referenced is NOT fiber its only bundled T1 lines being used as patch work temporarily to help the area get by till NV upgrades are done.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

Or as Robert likes to refer to them, "Band-Aid Fixes"

[Kevster1321]

so the speed should get even better then the upgrades there doing now. NICE

[AJC1973]

There is something going on in phoenix area.. 3g towers will go offline.. ill be running 1x in areas I normally get all 5 bars. Then back 3g full bars half hour later.3g got an upgrade or two at the airport recently I noticed at work some really nice speeds between terminal 3 and 4 by the faa tower...

Have you heard any rumblings about lte in the phx metro area? Vzw launched here... att is here... tmobile though not real 4g... better 3g is here as well. I feel like I have been stood up at the dance by sprint... I would hope that as they are upgrading speed and connectivity issues they would also be doing nv upgrades and lte as well.. I would hope...

[S4GRU]

Quote

There is something going on in phoenix area.. 3g towers will go offline.. ill be running 1x in areas I normally get all 5 bars. Then back 3g full bars half hour later.3g got an upgrade or two at the airport recently I noticed at work some really nice speeds between terminal 3 and 4 by the faa tower...

Have you heard any rumblings about lte in the phx metro area? Vzw launched here... att is here... tmobile though not real 4g... better 3g is here as well. I feel like I have been stood up at the dance by sprint... I would hope that as they are upgrading speed and connectivity issues they would also be doing nv upgrades and lte as well.. I would hope...

It would be nice if they were deploying NV/LTE in PHX. You guys deserve it.

However, likely what you are experiencing in PHX is related to temporary band aid fixes of additional carriers and additional T1 backhaul upgrades as shown at network.sprint.com.

By my sources, NV work has not begun in Phoenix except for some minor backhaul improvements to some sites is beginning. However, many of the vendors doing this work won't be hooking it up to existing services. They are just being terminated there. It will take a visit from Ericsson (Sprint's network vendor) or Alcatel/Lucent (Sprint's NV vendor for PHX) to hook these up.

I do appreciate you bringing us up to speed on what you are experiencing there in PHX. Also, thanks for joining S4GRU and

Stay tuned to S4GRU.com for all the latest deployment news. We will be announcing the next NV/LTE city in live chat tonight and the next article will be posted early tomorrow morning.

- Robert

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[WiWavelength]

kustu82, on 24 February 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Just curious, because when I was driving to the airport today (I live in KC) I noticed several towers that had the radio behind the antenna, but there was an antenna right next to it without a radio directly behind it. I remember from the Lawrence drawings this looked like the case like it was done in phases. So my guess these towers are ready they just have to turn on the new antennas and remove the old, or am I completely missing the mark.

Yes, the legacy 1900 MHz antennas will remain mounted during a transition phase. My supposition is that -- even after the new 800/1900 MHz dual band antennas and radios have been mounted -- CDMA1X 1900 will continue to operate from the legacy 1900 MHz infrastructure during at least part of that transition phase. So, the mere presence of antenna mounted radios does not mean that you are experiencing Network Vision enhanced coverage -- yet. But I will leave it to Robert to chime in and confirm or correct my supposition.

AJ

[S4GRU]

Quote

Yes, the legacy 1900 MHz antennas will remain mounted during a transition phase. My supposition is that -- even after the new 800/1900 MHz dual band antennas and radios have been mounted -- CDMA1X 1900 will continue to operate from the legacy 1900 MHz infrastructure during at least part of that transition phase. So, the mere presence of antenna mounted radios does not mean that you are experiencing Network Vision enhanced coverage -- yet. But I will leave it to Robert to chime in and confirm or correct my supposition.

AJ

This is correct. Based on the Lawrence drawings and the Chicago cluster sequencing docs, the antennas/radios (RRU's) appear to go up first, side by side with the operational legacy equipment. New base station cabinets get installed beside legacy base equipment. The NV contractors will deploy antennas, RRU's and base station cabinets over the entire cluster, while leaving legacy equipment active during that time.

Once the entire cluster is prepared with tower hardware complete, the next phase will include connecting new enhanced backhaul, preparing additional carriers (as needed for capacity), preparing and programming base hardware/software. New coax runs from the base cabinets to RRU's will be installed side by side with legacy coax.

At this time, the NV side will become live and testing will commence. However, most customers will be oblivious. Testing will occur in G Block, even CDMA testing, so as to not interfere with customers. They will start with with 1x testing on G Block, including 911 drive route testing in each cell. Once accepted, they will perform EVDO testing in G Block frequencies. Then finally LTE testing. Then all carriers get configured to their permanent frequency set.

Once everything is tested and confirmed ready, the switch over will begin. Legacy systems are disconnected and new NV configuration goes live. Over the entire cluster. This is likely when Sprint customers will notice something different is going on with how the network is performing.

In most cases, there are two or three clusters being worked on in a market at any given time. Each cluster takes about two to four weeks to complete, based on size, number of sites and complexities. The number of clusters in a Sprint market is highly variable based on the density population and coverage of each market.

After all the NV sites are confirmed operational, legacy equipment will start to be decommissioned and removed. This is exciting stuff to me. I have an article planned on this subject. Hopefully I can get to it this week.

- Robert

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[lrmcgarvey]

Thanks for that info. Really explains the order they are doing things a bit better.

[kustu82]

Appreciate all the info. I'm getting excited for NV in the KC area. Look forward to your article.

[SprintNYC]

Question Will Sprint continue to use T1 or switch to fiber to the tower once NV is completed?