Ascertion Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Sprint, 1900 PCS G Block? 800 MHz SMR? 2500/2600 BRS/EBS Clear wire? Verizon, 700 MHz 2100/1700 MHz AWS4 AT&T, 700 MHz T-Mobile, 2100/1700 MHz AWS4 1900 MHz PCS Sounds like there's too much aws. Kind of confused on who owns what. Can anyone correct me or enlighten me? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChadBroChillz Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 AWS4 is Dish's spectrum. Also 2100/1900 is a european band. It is not used in the US, because the 1900 overlaps with our PCS band. the AWS we use is 2100/1700Mhz. Verizon 750Mhz 2100/1700 Mhz ( phones just recently started supporting this band) ATT 700Mhz 2100/1700Mhz New phones on ATT also support LTE on 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. They will probably add support for LTE on 2.3Ghz in the near future as well. Their LTE network is very messy, IMO. Tmobile 2100/1700Mhz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascertion Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 AWS4 is Dish's spectrum. Also 2100/1900 is a european band. It is not used in the US, because the 1900 overlaps with our PCS band. the AWS we use is 2100/1700Mhz. Verizon 750Mhz 2100/1700 Mhz ( phones just recently started supporting this band) ATT 700Mhz 2100/1700Mhz New phones on ATT also support LTE on 850Mhz and 1900Mhz. They will probably add support for LTE on 2.3Ghz in the near future as well. Their LTE network is very messy, IMO. Tmobile 2100/1700Mhz Thank you. Did I get the Sprint bands correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawvega Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Yes, but the 800MHz is ESMR. Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynyrd65 Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 (including future bands)Sprint1.9 GHz Band 25 PCS A-F (depends on region)1.9 GHz Band 25 PCS G block800 MHz Band 26 ESMR850 MHz Band 26 Cellular (Roaming)700 MHz Band 12 Lower 700 A-C (Roaming)2.5~2.7 GHz Band 41 BRS TD-LTE (Clearwire)2.5~2.7 GHz Band 41 EBS TD-LTE (Clearwire)T-Mobile1700/2100 MHz Band 4 AWS-1700 MHz Band 17 Proprietary AT&T Lower 700 B-C (Roaming)1900MHz Band 2 PCS A-F (potentially)850 MHz Band 5 Cellular (Roaming potentially if they haven't already)Verizon700 MHz Band 13 Upper 700 MHz1700/2100 MHz Band 4 AWS-11900 MHz Band 2 PCS A-F (Future)850 MHz Band 5 Cellular (Future)AT&T700 MHz Band 17 Proprietary Lower 700 B-C1700/2100 MHz Band 4 AWS-1 (not likely to be used much)1900 MHz Band 2 PCS A-F (Future)850 MHz Band 5 Cellular 850 (Future)2300 MHz (Band class still being drafted) WCS (Future)Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2 US Cellular 700 MHz Band 12 Lower 700 A-C 1700/2100 MHz Band 4 AWS-1 800 MHz Band 26 ESMR (Future Roaming)850 MHz Band 26 Cellular (Currently Band 5 but future handsets will support 26) 1.9 GHz Band 25 PCS A-F (Currently Band 2 but future handsets will support 25) 1.9 GHz Band 25 PCS G block (Future Roaming) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansltx Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Sprint: SMR 800 (soon) + PCS A-G (G now, A-F soon) + BRS/EBS (soon) Verizon: 700 upper C (now) + AWS band IV (very soon) AT&T: 700 lower B+C (now) + AWS band IV (now, few areas) + PCS A-F (soon) + CLR 850 (soon) T-Mobile: AWS band IV (now) CricKet & MetroPCS: PCS A-F (now) + AWS band IV (now) US Cellular: CLR 850 + PCS A-F + AWS + 700 lower A-C? (I think all are being used other than lower A) Yes, AWS is where everyone is going these days, more or less. Maybe not for a primary deployment, but phones will end up supporting the bands at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynyrd65 Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 lynyrd, you made the mess, so you clean it up. AJ OK let's try this again (including future and roaming bands) Sprint 1900 MHz PCS A-G (LTE Band 25) 800 MHz ESMR (LTE Band 26) 850 MHz Cellular (LTE Band 26) Roaming 700 MHz Lower 700 A-C (LTE Band 12) Roaming 2500~2700 MHz BRS/EBS TD-LTE (LTE Band 41) Clearwire T-Mobile 1700/2100 MHz AWS-1 (LTE Band 4) 1900 MHz PCS A-F (LTE Band 2) Possible for the future 700 MHz Lower 700 B-C (AT&T Proprietary) (LTE Band 17) Roaming on AT&T 850 MHz Cellular (LTE Band 5) Roaming (possibly) Verizon 750 MHz Upper 700Mhz (LTE Band 13) 1700/2100 MHz AWS-1 (LTE Band 4) 1900 MHz PCS A-F (LTE Band 2) Possible for the future 850 MHz Cellular (LTE Band 5) Possible for the future AT&T 700 MHz Lower 700 B-C (AT&T Proprietary) (LTE Band 17) 1700/2100 MHz AWS-1 (LTE Band 4) Rarely used 1900 MHz PCS A-F (LTE Band 2) Possible for the future 850 MHz Cellular (LTE Band 5) 2300 MHz WCS (LTE Band class still being drafted) US Cellular 700 MHz Lower 700 A-C (LTE Band 12) 1700/2100 MHz AWS-1 (LTE Band 4) 850 MHz Cellular (LTE Band 26) band 26 for future devices, currently band 5 1900 MHz PCS A-G (LTE Band 25) Future and Roaming, current devices only support PCS A-F in band 2 800 MHz ESMR (LTE Band 26) Future Roaming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascertion Posted May 20, 2013 Author Share Posted May 20, 2013 Definitely looks like Sprint has the best setup, followed by Verizon. Maybe I don't understand how much spectrum they have in each market but I've heard Clearwire had a TON in the 2.6ghz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilotimz Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Definitely looks like Sprint has the best setup, followed by Verizon. Maybe I don't understand how much spectrum they have in each market but I've heard Clearwire had a TON in the 2.6ghz. I believe AJ said most markets have at least 40 mhz of BRS but a variable amount of leased EBS spectrum which are fragmented and highly varies region to region so don't count on the fact that clearwire has a lot of spectrum on sheets to be an actual representation of how much clearwire could effectively utilize across the nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynyrd65 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Definitely looks like Sprint has the best setup, followed by Verizon. Maybe I don't understand how much spectrum they have in each market but I've heard Clearwire had a TON in the 2.6ghz. Verizon is actually in a bad place right now. The only band they can expand into is AWS. They would have to cannibalize their fully loaded 3G network to use 1900 and 850. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmchssc Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 AT&T is in an even worse place. To start with, they don't even have room for a 10x10 MHz carrier in many places on their primary LTE band, band 17. Then, they have a smattering of AWS that they will be able to use in a few areas for an extra 5x5 or 10x10 capacity carrier. Their only other "virgin" spectrum is WCS, which will give them room for another extra 5x5 or 10x10 capacity carrier. Their best case spectrum availability is 30x30, and I believe their worst is 5x5. To expand, they will need to cannibalize their current 3G network, which is not renown for its quality. Verizon has a minimum of 20x20 that they can deploy, nationwide, with a lower average frequency than AT&T's spectrum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrph Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 So based on all of this who later down the road from now will be in the best position? I do not want Sprint to fall behind again when they chose to do the WiMax thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucdenny Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 They had chosen WiMax because that was the tech which was available at that time. Sprint will have more capacity when they finish obtaining Clearwire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacPCS Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 AT&T is in an even worse place. To start with, they don't even have room for a 10x10 MHz carrier in many places on their primary LTE band, band 17. Then, they have a smattering of AWS that they will be able to use in a few areas for an extra 5x5 or 10x10 capacity carrier. Their only other "virgin" spectrum is WCS, which will give them room for another extra 5x5 or 10x10 capacity carrier. Their best case spectrum availability is 30x30, and I believe their worst is 5x5. To expand, they will need to cannibalize their current 3G network, which is not renown for its quality. Verizon has a minimum of 20x20 that they can deploy, nationwide, with a lower average frequency than AT&T's spectrum. AT&T might not be ideal, but Sprint isn't deploying 10x10 ANYWHERE for LTE. the G-block is getting 5x5, and 800Mhz is getting 5x5. It's only if they can get approval to buy Clearwire from the rest of the bitchy shareholders that they'll have a nice position in pretty high frequencies for something to the tune of 20Mhz worth of TDD-LTE. So while AT&T only has 10Mhz in some places, Sprint has it in zero, with plans for zero more. Unless they get to buy Clearwire. Tomorrow. And to the above WiMAX question (again), Sprint / CLWR went with WiMax for many reasons, not the least of which was a buildout requirement they had to meet. Hence WiMax protection sites (find a map in the sponsor section) that they put up specifically to try to avoid losing spectrum licenses. So yeah, it sucks that it didn't work out, but in many ways it accomplished what they needed at the moment to accomplish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChadBroChillz Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 So based on all of this who later down the road from now will be in the best position? I do not want Sprint to fall behind again when they chose to do the WiMax thing. Sprint has the potential( if Softbank and Clearwire deals go through) to be on top in terms of speed and capacity. Verizon and ATT will be 1and 2 for coverage. Sprint's Network Vision platform will help them prevent falling as low as they were. If you live in an area with native sprint coverage, the in-building voice and LTE data coverage should be very similar Verizon's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiWavelength Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Verizon has a minimum of 20x20 that they can deploy, nationwide, with a lower average frequency than AT&T's spectrum. Close, but not entirely. I assume that you are talking VZW "green field" LTE spectrum in aggregate. The Upper 700 MHz C block 22 MHz (11 MHz FDD) licenses are nationwide. But the SpectrumCo-Cox transaction does not give VZW truly nationwide AWS 2100+1700 MHz spectrum. Several markets are missing, and VZW has since fragmented some of that spectrum depth, due to swaps with T-Mobile. About seven years ago, during the AWS-1 auction, I produced this map of SpectrumCo's winnings: My 5000th post... AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChadBroChillz Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I am still trying to figure out Sprint's reasoning behind choosing to support the 700Mhz A-C block for roaming instead of Verizon's 750Mhz. Are their any carriers actually building out LTE on the A-block? I assumed all of them joined Verizon's Rural America program. It would be great for Sprint if they could forge a nationwide LTE roaming agreement with these smaller carriers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefbal99 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 AT&T might not be ideal, but Sprint isn't deploying 10x10 ANYWHERE for LTE. the G-block is getting 5x5, and 800Mhz is getting 5x5. It's only if they can get approval to buy Clearwire from the rest of the bitchy shareholders that they'll have a nice position in pretty high frequencies for something to the tune of 20Mhz worth of TDD-LTE. So while AT&T only has 10Mhz in some places, Sprint has it in zero, with plans for zero more. Unless they get to buy Clearwire. Tomorrow. Seriously, what is the big deal with 10x10 or 10Mhz FDD, besides measuring your phones schlong in a speed test screenshot? For 99% of smart phone users a 3-5mbs down and 1-3mbs up connection is more than enough for every possible mobile app out there. Sprint has a great plan with 5Mhz FDD channels and when the Clearwire spectrum comes, they will have huge pipes in the BRS/EBS with TDD LTE. But TDD won't even be 10x10, it will be a time divided ratio, I think Robert or AJ mentioned a 10:1 d:u guess. 5Mhz FDD G Block, 5Mhz FDD SMR, plus eventual refarming 5Mhz FDD in A-F Block will cover Sprint users very, very well with mobile broadband access. While I agree that long term, the larger data pipes will be needed for mobile applications and services, that is probably 5 years down the road. Sprint have LTE-A on their map and can look at Carrier Aggregation if they need high throughput in the PCS Spectrum at that time. I really hope that Sprint gets their wish of TDD banding for 600Mhz and that works out to clear the 70-80Mhz that the FCC wants. Then Sprint can hopefully get a 20Mhz swath and build out the future network for use around 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4GRU Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Seriously, what is the big deal with 10x10 or 10Mhz FDD, besides measuring your phones schlong in a speed test screenshot? For 99% of smart phone users a 3-5mbs down and 1-3mbs up connection is more than enough for every possible mobile app out there. Sprint has a great plan with 5Mhz FDD channels and when the Clearwire spectrum comes, they will have huge pipes in the BRS/EBS with TDD LTE. But TDD won't even be 10x10, it will be a time divided ratio, I think Robert or AJ mentioned a 10:1 d:u guess. 5Mhz FDD G Block, 5Mhz FDD SMR, plus eventual refarming 5Mhz FDD in A-F Block will cover Sprint users very, very well with mobile broadband access. While I agree that long term, the larger data pipes will be needed for mobile applications and services, that is probably 5 years down the road. Sprint have LTE-A on their map and can look at Carrier Aggregation if they need high throughput in the PCS Spectrum at that time. I really hope that Sprint gets their wish of TDD banding for 600Mhz and that works out to clear the 70-80Mhz that the FCC wants. Then Sprint can hopefully get a 20Mhz swath and build out the future network for use around 2018. Clearwire is believed to be deploying TD-LTE in 20MHz TDD channels. Most likely with a 3:2 time slot ratio between Downlink and Uplink. A 20MHz TDD channel deployed in a 3:2 could almost reach 100Mbps in ideal peak situations and the proper backhaul. Robert via Nexus 7 with Tapatalk HD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefbal99 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Clearwire is believed to be deploying TD-LTE in 20MHz TDD channels. Most likely with a 3:2 time slot ratio between Downlink and Uplink. A 20MHz TDD channel deployed in a 3:2 could almost reach 100Mbps in ideal peak situations and the proper backhaul. Robert via Nexus 7 with Tapatalk HD Between that plan for Highspeed Data and a hopeful 20Mhz TDD in 600Mhz with PCS tower spacing for VoLTE, Sprint would be set for quite awhile, with a very strong network! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnwk Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) Between that plan for Highspeed Data and a hopeful 20Mhz TDD in 600Mhz with PCS tower spacing for VoLTE, Sprint would be set for quite awhile, with a very strong network! And probably we will see that all come to true in 2023 at the current pace. Edited May 21, 2013 by dnwk 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynyrd65 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I am still trying to figure out Sprint's reasoning behind choosing to support the 700Mhz A-C block for roaming instead of Verizon's 750Mhz. Are their any carriers actually building out LTE on the A-block? I assumed all of them joined Verizon's Rural America program. It would be great for Sprint if they could forge a nationwide LTE roaming agreement with these smaller carriers. My other carrier, US Cellular. They have a good amount of coverage in the plains area (tons where I live) and intend to build out to cover most of their footprint with band 12 LTE service. The carriers that use band 12 are among the last holdout regional carriers not to be owned by the big four. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawvega Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) I am still trying to figure out Sprint's reasoning behind choosing to support the 700Mhz A-C block for roaming instead of Verizon's 750Mhz. Are their any carriers actually building out LTE on the A-block? I assumed all of them joined Verizon's Rural America program. It would be great for Sprint if they could forge a nationwide LTE roaming agreement with these smaller carriers. It takes two to tango. I seem to recall VZW not being terribly keen about offering Sprint (or most anyone else) roaming although I'm sure that it's a great source of revenue for them. AT&T could replace VZW as a main roaming partner for Sprint as their Band 17 spectrum is included in Band 12. Supporting VZW Band 13 would limit Sprint to VZW and its LTEiRA cohorts. Sprint is a member of the Competitive Carriers Association (CCA) and I'd bet that a lot of it's members have lower 700 A, B & C spectrum so why not use them as roaming partners and likely get better roaming rates than from VZW Edit: One other implication of them including Band 13 support for roaming on VZW is that their devices would almost certainly be subject to the same rules as native VZW devices. Specifically, they'd have to be totally SIM unlocked meaning that if it had a GSM/UMTS radio in it (which almost all of them do these days) then it could be taken to AT&T or T-Mobile no questions asked which doesn't seem like something that Sprint is too keen on unfortunately. Edited May 22, 2013 by Rawvega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjschind Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Here is a report from ericsson about current lte bands used thoughout the world. http://report.nat.gov.tw/ReportFront/report_download.jspx?sysId=C10102211&fileNo=003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Kudo Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 My other carrier, US Cellular. They have a good amount of coverage in the plains area (tons where I live) and intend to build out to cover most of their footprint with band 12 LTE service. The carriers that use band 12 are among the last holdout regional carriers not to be owned by the big four. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2 Sadly, this may not be the case anymore. US Cellular is rebuilding LTE on Band 5 this year, with the intent to expand the network on bands 2 and 5 for the remainder of its LTE build out cycles. It appears that Band 12 has become too much of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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