176 replies to this topic

[Sgt. Slaughter]

S4GRU, on 03 April 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

And I ask you questions about devices and chips. So, it's all good.

Robert - Posted from my E4GT with ICS using Forum Runner

Agreed

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

[Duffman]

I guess you can ask me questions about.... uh, never mind. I got nothing.

[pyroscott]

S4GRU, on 03 April 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

And I ask you questions about devices and chips. So, it's all good.

Robert - Posted from my E4GT with ICS using Forum Runner

I second that!

[LTE]

Here's one of my local towers. I've always thought that the top rack was just iDEN, but was just recently told that CDMA is on this tower as well.


I believe that the lower setup is Clear's WiMax. Every WiMax site in my area has those little microwave radomes pointing at another clear site, and eventually they lead back to bigger dishes. Too bad Sprint isn't using that backhaul yet... Clear gives me 8-10Mbps consistently when I'm in range.

[digiblur]

Nice and clear pic! Yep, that looks like clear at the bottom. Looks like one of those synergy sites where they removed a nextel panel and put in a 1900 panel for cdma.

[digiblur]

Another thing to notice is look at the downtilt between the two panel types. Shows the propagation differences there.

If NV has a combined 800/1900 panel, hmm...they won't be able to control the downtilt separately between the two bands.

[pyroscott]

digiblur, on 04 April 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Another thing to notice is look at the downtilt between the two panel types. Shows the propagation differences there.

If NV has a combined 800/1900 panel, hmm...they won't be able to control the downtilt separately between the two bands.

I was wondering about that. Seemed wierd to me that the darker ones would be such a vast difference and the lighter ones are virtually no downtilt.

[bigzeto]

I'm still amazed at how clear that pic is. Nice job.

[S4GRU]

digiblur, on 04 April 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Nice and clear pic! Yep, that looks like clear at the bottom. Looks like one of those synergy sites where they removed a nextel panel and put in a 1900 panel for cdma.

digiblur, on 04 April 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Another thing to notice is look at the downtilt between the two panel types. Shows the propagation differences there.

If NV has a combined 800/1900 panel, hmm...they won't be able to control the downtilt separately between the two bands.

pyroscott, on 04 April 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

I was wondering about that. Seemed wierd to me that the darker ones would be such a vast difference and the lighter ones are virtually no downtilt.

800 needs much more downtilt in an urban area because of increased propagation. And on to digi's question, I'm thinking that in a combined 800/1900 NV panel, there will have to be electronic downtilt that handles the difference. Mechanical downtilt will not be able to be different, as you point out.

bigzeto, on 04 April 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

I'm still amazed at how clear that pic is. Nice job.

LTE...what kind of camera was that taken with? I have never had such a clear zoomed panel close up.

Robert

[pyroscott]

It sure is a clear pic. I want a camera like that. (Please don't say iPhone 4S!) LOL

It looks like you were on a lift right next to the panel

[Sgt. Slaughter]

digiblur, on 04 April 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Nice and clear pic! Yep, that looks like clear at the bottom. Looks like one of those synergy sites where they removed a nextel panel and put in a 1900 panel for cdma.

are you saying there is 0 800MHz nextel panel's on there right? just ask b/c I thought the lower the freq the bigger the panel so then the Nextel panel would be bigger than the 1900MHz CDMA ones...

[WiWavelength]

Duffman, on 29 March 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

Talked to a gent today that works for a company that makes radomes. He said they run, like, 39 GHz. Must be able to carry quite a bit.

digiblur, on 03 April 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

39ghz doesn't give it the ability to carry more data. All depends on the width of the channel and the modulation scheme they can pull off.

A MHz of bandwidth at 1 GHz is the same MHz of bandwidth at 2 GHz, 10 GHz, 39 GHz, etc. All other factors being equal, it has the same information carrying capacity. Now, that said, available spectrum is far, far more prevalent around 39 GHz than it is at those lower frequencies, so licenses/allotments around 39 GHz may be of much greater bandwidth. In other words, it may be possible to occupy 100 MHz of available bandwidth around 39 GHz, while that would be all but impossible around 1 GHz.

To use an analogy, available spectrum around 1 GHz is like Manhattan real estate. Available lots are relatively small in size and few in number, not to mention they will cost you a mint. In contrast, available spectrum around 39 GHz is like eastern New Mexico real estate. For the price that you would pay for one small lot on Manhattan, you could buy thousands of acres in New Mexico, where there is plenty of available land.

AJ

[LTE]

Thanks for the compliments on the picture. I've got lots more of various antennas in my area which I will post soon... you can even read the brand labels on the antennae in some of them! All taken with a Nikon D5100 and 55-300 Nikkor lens.

How about this one: does anyone know what the funky little antennas with the gold and silver plates around them are? They're only on two sectors of the tower; the sector with the long antennas angled downward is shooting off the side of a bluff.

Also, that big dish with the lighting bolt logo seems to be where many of the smaller Clear WiMax sites are backhauling to.

Based on the maps in the sponsors section, and my abysmal Sprint coverage near it, I'm certain this isn't a Sprint tower. I get a great LTE signal on my Verizon iPad, though.

[S4GRU]

Sgt. Slaughter, on 04 April 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

are you saying there is 0 800MHz nextel panel's on there right? just ask b/c I thought the lower the freq the bigger the panel so then the Nextel panel would be bigger than the 1900MHz CDMA ones...

To me, it's hard to judge scale. However, trying to scale from the size of the WiMax panels, these appear to be 800 sized panels. However, I do believe the white one, while similar size to the Nextel 800's, is likely a 1900 CDMA panel. A 1900 panel can be larger than it needs to be. But an 800 cannot be smaller than it needs to be.

The new NV 1900 panels are huge, much larger than 1900 needs. Because they also share with 800. I was able to confirm that this specific site from LTE's info in a PM, that this site definitely has two voice carriers and 1 EVDO carrier. So 1900 is definitely present.

Robert

[S4GRU]

LTE, on 04 April 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Thanks for the compliments on the picture. I've got lots more of various antennas in my area which I will post soon... you can even read the brand labels on the antennae in some of them! All taken with a Nikon D5100 and 55-300 Nikkor lens.

How about this one: does anyone know what the funky little antennas with the gold and silver plates around them are? They're only on two sectors of the tower; the sector with the long antennas angled downward is shooting off the side of a bluff.

Also, that big dish with the lighting bolt logo seems to be where many of the smaller Clear WiMax sites are backhauling to.

Based on the maps in the sponsors section, and my abysmal Sprint coverage near it, I'm certain this isn't a Sprint tower. I get a great LTE signal on my Verizon iPad, though.

Those little panels are cute. Is there a local WiMax provider in your area? They are so small. They may be 3.3 or 3.5GHz WiMax. But they are installed side by side with Verizon. Maybe they are some 3GHz MW backhaul to other VZW sites? I've never seen ones quite like that. Although they do appear to have downtilt. Hmmm...

That bigger, longer panel is likely Verizon 700MHz LTE. Verizon has their LTE deployed in only one or two sectors on towers all over my area.

Robert

[LTE]

S4GRU, on 04 April 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

Those little panels are cute. Is there a local WiMax provider in your area? They are so small. They may be 3.3 or 3.5GHz WiMax. But they are installed side by side with Verizon. Maybe they are some 3GHz MW backhaul to other VZW sites? I've never seen ones quite like that. Although they do appear to have downtilt. Hmmm...

That bigger, longer panel is likely Verizon 700MHz LTE. Verizon has their LTE deployed in only one or two sectors on towers all over my area.

Robert

No local WiMax... just Clear. Right under that big dish in the second picture I posted is another set of WiMax antennas that are almost identical to the set in the first picture.

T-Mo and AT&T are really strong on top of this bluff as well, so maybe some of that is GSM gear?

[S4GRU]

LTE, on 04 April 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

No local WiMax... just Clear. Right under that big dish in the second picture I posted is another set of WiMax antennas that are almost identical to the set in the first picture.

T-Mo and AT&T are really strong on top of this bluff as well, so maybe some of that is GSM gear?

Those little gold and silver ones appear too small to me to be anything that I am aware of from AT&T and Tmo. They almost appear to me to be smaller than Clearwire's 2.5GHz panels. Which is why I theorized they may be 3+ GHz.

Robert

[Sgt. Slaughter]

S4GRU, on 04 April 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

Those little gold and silver ones appear too small to me to be anything that I am aware of from AT&T and Tmo. They almost appear to me to be smaller than Clearwire's 2.5GHz panels. Which is why I theorized they may be 3+ GHz.

Robert

prolly for the CIA....some super secret stuff....lol

[digiblur]

The reason those nextel panels are downtilted so much is their cell sites are tighter together than sprint cdma. When they come and retune the sites and remove some they change the downtilt to cover larger areas.

I have seen some panels like that before with the mesh on the edges. I believe they are nextel panels that will be taken down soon.

EDIT: The nextel panels that will be gone soon are much larger than that though.

[LTE]

S4GRU, on 04 April 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

Those little panels are cute. Is there a local WiMax provider in your area? They are so small. They may be 3.3 or 3.5GHz WiMax. But they are installed side by side with Verizon. Maybe they are some 3GHz MW backhaul to other VZW sites? I've never seen ones quite like that. Although they do appear to have downtilt. Hmmm...

I got curious and did a little more research. At the base of the tower there is a building with a big red Verizon sticker on the door, and the fence around it has placards with warnings about RF exposure limits at the site, and a placard that says 'Crown Castle' (if that means anything to anyone, maybe an OEM?).

Also, these little panels are only on 2 sectors of this site, and they both point directly at what I call 'Mega Towers' in the area which have loads of antennas on them. Your backhaul theory is probably right on. I'm not sure how valid the data at www.antennasearch.com is, but it shows Clear using 11,19 and 23GHz at this site, and Verizon using 10GHz.