T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[runagun]

Can anyone answer me this If tmobile can do it. why hasnt sprint advertise 2xlte coverage with b26...

[newyork4me]

Can anyone answer me this If tmobile can do it. why hasnt sprint advertise 2xlte coverage with b26...

 

 

Well, for one, the CMA with the largest number of people (Los Angeles-Long Beach-San Bernardino) won't have B26 LTE for likely at least another year. 

[lilotimz]

Can anyone answer me this If tmobile can do it. why hasnt sprint advertise 2xlte coverage with b26...

 

 

Tmobiles base network is Band 4 and is supplemented by Band 12.

 

Band 4 is usually 10-15-20 MHz and thus have 2-3x the capacity of Sprints Band 25 network thus freeing T-mobile engineers to  optimize it to improve coverage rather than capacity.

 

B26 is used for capacity alongside similarly sized Band 25. If Sprint sets it for coverage, Band 26 will be overloaded and unusuable since there are huge LTE gaps on LTE 1900 and 2500 due to a lack of dense cell site spacing. 

 

It's a double whammy. They could and probably should use Band 26 to improve coverage but then the new coverage would be basically unusable. They could deploy more LTE sites to increase coverage and network site density / capacity so that they can optimize B26 for coverage without data congestion worries but then it'd take months or years in some cases to do so.

 

Ahh the struggles.  

[nexgencpu]

 

Tmobiles base network is Band 4 and is supplemented by Band 12.

 

Band 4 is usually 10-15-20 MHz and thus have 2-3x the capacity of Sprints Band 25 network thus freeing T-mobile engineers to  optimize it to improve coverage rather than capacity.

 

B26 is used for capacity alongside similarly sized Band 25. If Sprint sets it for coverage, Band 26 will be overloaded and unusuable since there are huge LTE gaps on LTE 1900 and 2500 due to a lack of dense cell site spacing. 

 

It's a double whammy. They could and probably should use Band 26 to improve coverage but then the new coverage would be basically unusable. They could deploy more LTE sites to increase coverage and network site density / capacity so that they can optimize B26 for coverage without data congestion worries but then it'd take months or years in some cases to do so.

 

Ahh the struggles.  

 

I don't understand, is B12 better in non urban environments? B12 in the tri-state area is super congested.

 

Also in NYC Band 26 does provide more coverage..

 

Delta vs 3G

 

B26 is about 5-7dB worse

B25 is about 10-12dB worse

B41 is about 12-15dB worse

 

So after optimization B26 does provide better coverage in NYC, it just does not go over 1mb during peak times, slightly better than I see on B12 (speed wise, coverage wise B12 is set alot stronger than B4 making it less usable.)

 

At the end of the day, 5x5 just isnt enough for nearly any situation except off peak times and maybe very rural areas.

[S4GRU]

I find quite a bit of congested Tmo B12 when I travel. Seems like 25%-30% of sites. But it is true that I find more Sprint B26 congested when I travel.

 

In single B25 5MHz channel markets with B26, B26 seems to me to be congested 75%+ of the time. Whereas in markets where Sprint has mature B41 and wider B25 channels, B26 chugs along admirably when optimized. Equal or better to Tmo B12.

 

Using Tapatalk on Note 8.0

[RAvirani]

I think Sprint's goal should be to get every market to 10x10 (or maybe 2 5x5 carriers where the C-block isn't held) on B25 in the near future (next few months), maybe even putting some markets on 15x15 (if they run their equipment through the FCC again and get it certified) (or a 10x10 and a 5x5). This way Sprint will be able to optimize B26 for range without the LTE network collapsing. B41 is harder to get up in new areas because it requires a site visit but almost every metro cell site has a B25 antenna so increasing bandwidth is fully doable by software. Sprint should be able to shrink their CDMA down to 2-3 1x carriers and 1-2 EVDO carriers in 1900MHz because with optimized B26, 3G should almost never be seen. 1x800 can also take a bit of load in times of heavy voice usage.

[greenbastard]

I think Sprint's goal should be to get every market to 10x10 (or maybe 2 5x5 carriers where the C-block isn't held) on B25 in the near future (next few months), maybe even putting some markets on 15x15 (if they run their equipment through the FCC again and get it certified) (or a 10x10 and a 5x5). This way Sprint will be able to optimize B26 for range without the LTE network collapsing. B41 is harder to get up in new areas because it requires a site visit but almost every metro cell site has a B25 antenna so increasing bandwidth is fully doable by software. Sprint should be able to shrink their CDMA down to 2-3 1x carriers and 1-2 EVDO carriers in 1900MHz because with optimized B26, 3G should almost never be seen. 1x800 can also take a bit of load in times of heavy voice usage.

That's not going to help in places such as Houston where all Sprint has is 30 Mhz of PCS spectrum that's not continuous (That's including the G block). Sure, they can shrink 1x and EVDO, but I don't know how that will impact voice. 3G EVDO is so rarely used in parts of Houston that it is possible to reach up to 2 Mbps in the middle of the day in places where LTE B26 times out. But voice is another issue.

 

The window to outright purchase more PCS spectrum has come and gone (Leap Wireless) in Southeast Texas. The only thing Sprint can realistically do is bid on the 600 Mhz spectrum since B41 is not getting the job done. Sprint can add as many carriers as they want to B41, but none of that will matter since it doesn't reach indoors in its current set up (Clearwire tower spacing and equipment are the worst).

[orangeblue]

That's not going to help in places such as Houston where all Sprint has is 30 Mhz of PCS spectrum that's not continuous (That's including the G block). Sure, they can shrink 1x and EVDO, but I don't know how that will impact voice. 3G EVDO is so rarely used in parts of Houston that it is possible to reach up to 2 Mbps in the middle of the day in places where LTE B26 times out. But voice is another issue.

 

The window to outright purchase more PCS spectrum has come and gone (Leap Wireless) in Southeast Texas. The only thing Sprint can realistically do is bid on the 600 Mhz spectrum since B41 is not getting the job done. Sprint can add as many carriers as they want to B41, but none of that will matter since it doesn't reach indoors in its current set up (Clearwire tower spacing and equipment are the worst).

 

600 Mhz will not solve all problems and it's my understanding that Sprint's plan is to add additional sites (B41) to diversify the network. Time will tell but if the B41 build out is done right, transforming B41 for LTE into a main band, while keeping B25/B26 as reserves, it would be strong enough to handle the traffic.

[Arysyn]

I think Sprint's goal should be to get every market to 10x10 (or maybe 2 5x5 carriers where the C-block isn't held) on B25 in the near future (next few months), maybe even putting some markets on 15x15 (if they run their equipment through the FCC again and get it certified) (or a 10x10 and a 5x5). This way Sprint will be able to optimize B26 for range without the LTE network collapsing. B41 is harder to get up in new areas because it requires a site visit but almost every metro cell site has a B25 antenna so increasing bandwidth is fully doable by software. Sprint should be able to shrink their CDMA down to 2-3 1x carriers and 1-2 EVDO carriers in 1900MHz because with optimized B26, 3G should almost never be seen. 1x800 can also take a bit of load in times of heavy voice usage.

 

Sprint needs to get 10x10 PCS or even 15x15 PCS of LTE wherever it can. If it means perhaps getting VoLTE started early in some areas where they have proper site spacing for it, then Sprint should do it. Where Sprint only can do multiple 5x5s, do that also. Although, I'm surprised Sprint didn't try to get 15x15 of contiguous PCS spectrum in the first place or whenever else it became available to them. It seems that now Sprint really ought to get working on the major site addition projects that were announced months ago, which I'm surprised we're not hearing much about lately. All it seems being said about Sprint nowadays are about financial cutbacks, customer losses, controversial listening tours, and new regional presidents being hired. There needs to be more meaningful news for Sprint to get out, particularly good news that draws customers to the company along with keeping current customers.

[WiWavelength]

Although, I'm surprised Sprint didn't try to get 15x15 of contiguous PCS spectrum in the first place or whenever else it became available to them.

 

Uh, Sprint did just that over 20 years ago.  Sprint (SpectrumCo, Cox, and PhillieCo) was by far the largest winner of PCS A/B block 30 MHz (15 MHz FDD) licenses across the country in the first PCS auction.

 

Look at my map.  See all of that green:

 

http://people.ku.edu/~cinema/wireless/spcs.gif

 

You do not know your wireless history, Arysyn.

 

AJ

[Overstew]

Uh, Sprint did just that over 20 years ago.  Sprint (SpectrumCo, Cox, and PhillieCo) was by far the largest winner of PCS A/B block 30 MHz (15 MHz FDD) licenses across the country in the first PCS auction.

 

Look at my map.  See all of that green:

 

http://people.ku.edu/~cinema/wireless/spcs.gif

 

You do not know your wireless history, Arysyn.

 

AJ

Why the heck isn't there more 10x10 B25 sites, especially out west then?  That is crazy that Sprint has waited this long to finally start rolling out a 2nd B25 carrier.

[lilotimz]

Why the heck isn't there more 10x10 B25 sites, especially out west then?  That is crazy that Sprint has waited this long to finally start rolling out a 2nd B25 carrier.

 

Because they sold part of the spectrum to ATT. 

[laqn1283]

For those who understand about carriers' business, I find it very difficult to understand why Sprint has less employees than Tmobile and less revenue, but their expenses percentage wise to revenues is much higher than Tmobile excluding interest expense?  is it because they spend more money on roaming and backhaul costs?  

[EvanA]

For those who understand about carriers' business, I find it very difficult to understand why Sprint has less employees than Tmobile and less revenue, but their expenses percentage wise to revenues is much higher than Tmobile excluding interest expense? is it because they spend more money on roaming and backhaul costs?

It's because the company has become very inefficient over the years. That's why they've started a cost cutting initiative. There is lots of crap that can be removed.

[laqn1283]

Following up on my post above, Sprint's cost of service each quarter is $1 billion higher than Tmobile's, adding up to $4billion more than Tmobile a year!  That is unbelievable.  

[danlodish345]

For those who understand about carriers' business, I find it very difficult to understand why Sprint has less employees than Tmobile and less revenue, but their expenses percentage wise to revenues is much higher than Tmobile excluding interest expense? is it because they spend more money on roaming and backhaul costs?

That's a huge part of it

 

Sent from my LG-H900 using Tapatalk

[laqn1283]

That's a huge part of it

 

Sent from my LG-H900 using Tapatalk

Tmobile does not own its own backhaul and neither does Sprint.  Both rely on others to provide roaming.  Then why Sprint's backhaul and roaming cost are so high?

[danlodish345]

Tmobile does not own its own backhaul and neither does Sprint. Both rely on others to provide roaming. Then why Sprint's backhaul and roaming cost are so high?

Because they rely on Verizon for roaming and the cost getting back haul into a place is part of the problem also you have to figure the permits getting put into place... plus they have to keep expanding their coverage and Verizon is exactly cheap when it comes to roaming off their Network

 

Sent from my LG-H900 using Tapatalk

[laqn1283]

Because they rely on Verizon for roaming and the cost getting back haul into a place is part of the problem also you have to figure the permits getting put into place... plus they have to keep expanding their coverage and Verizon is exactly cheap when it comes to roaming off their Network

 

Sent from my LG-H900 using Tapatalk

Tmobile has to go thru those things too!

[danlodish345]

T-Mobile roaming limits are much lower 50 megabytes of data before they cut you off

 

Sent from my LG-H900 using Tapatalk

[Jones]

Tmobile has to go thru those things too!

Perhaps marcelo should fire Tarek and hire you!

[laqn1283]

Perhaps marcelo should fire Tarek and hire you!

Perhaps you should not comment unless you have something to contribute!

[Deval]

Why the heck isn't there more 10x10 B25 sites, especially out west then?  That is crazy that Sprint has waited this long to finally start rolling out a 2nd B25 carrier.

 

Also Voice and EVDO are on the same spectrum now.

[Deval]

For those who understand about carriers' business, I find it very difficult to understand why Sprint has less employees than Tmobile and less revenue, but their expenses percentage wise to revenues is much higher than Tmobile excluding interest expense?  is it because they spend more money on roaming and backhaul costs?  

 

I can't imagine Sprint paying that much more for backhaul than T-Mobile.

 

What people are forgetting is that Sprint also owns their own fiber network, Sprintlink which provides Global MPLS services as well as public IP services. 

 

https://www.sprint.net/network_maps.php

 

All of Sprint's phone traffic runs on their own internal wireline network, pretty amazing actually.

[sbolen]

Has this been discussed yet? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-28/t-mobile-accused-of-fighting-a-real-union-by-creating-a-fake-one

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk