Apple/iPhone/iOS criticism and debate thread

[MacinJosh]

So given your thinking of sprint going bankrupt, and the lack of nationwide coverage, it wouldve doomed both the Iphone, and Sprint

I believe so. Remember, Apple makes the rules with the iPhone, that's why Sprint contracted for $15 billion worth of phones over a certain number of years. Their level of control would have wrecked Sprint and could have wrecked iPhone as well.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

[sbolen]

Do we have a thread to critique Android or Windows Phones? I think we can all agree to poop on Blackberry.

[Vince]

Do we have a thread to critique Android or Windows Phones? I think we can all agree to poop on Blackberry.

It's ok to bash/debate Apple. Any android bashing will probably be deleted. Android can't do no wrong.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

[travismheim]

Do we have a thread to critique Android or Windows Phones? I think we can all agree to poop on Blackberry.

The only problem I would see having a thread dedicated to just Android would be how different each manufacturer implements/changes the OS with skins and "features", which IMO is my biggest beef with the Android ecosystem. After owning a Nexus, I don't think I could ever go back to anything else unless I manually install a pure Android rom.

[kojitsari]

It's ok to bash/debate Apple. Any android bashing will probably be deleted. Android can't do no wrong.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

I'm impartial and have yet to partake in any of this. However everyone's coming across rather butt hurt now[emoji28] ... Although I wouldn't agree that there's no android bashing going on, it happens inside the threads for each individual phone. Take a gander through the n5 thread there's pages of complaints and whatnot about the OS in addition to the phone.

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

The only problem I would see having a thread dedicated to just Android would be how different each manufacturer implements/changes the OS with skins and "features", which IMO is my biggest beef with the Android ecosystem. After owning a Nexus, I don't think I could ever go back to anything else unless I manually install a pure Android rom.

As soon as Android 5.0 is available for my G3, I'm going to root it and install a stock Android L ROM. I hate the skins OEMs use, although LG's is a little better than most. Android is perfectly fine in stock form and performs much better.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

[Vince]

Everyone says how superior android is, yet those same people are always rooting and installing roms. I prefer my iOS to be perfect out of the box. [emoji6]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Everyone says how superior android is, yet those same people are always rooting and installing roms. I prefer my iOS to be perfect out of the box. [emoji6]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

Android is far from perfect. People root and install ROMs because Android offers that ability. Most people that prefer Android over iOS is because of the customizing potential that Android has to offer, especially for the "power user".

 

I will only root and install a ROM to get stock Android and bypass any OEM skins, especially for Android L, as this iteration marks a huge design change for Android; stock Android L looks very promising for the G3.

 

iOS is far from perfect too, but is typically fast, very stable and easy to use. IOS is far-less fragmented than Android, which coupled with the other features mentioned above, make people love iOS.

 

I use both daily, because I love both. There are certain things my iPhone 6+ just does better than my G3 and vice versa. That being said, my iPhone 6+ is my Daily Driver.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

[travismheim]

Seems like a good place to put this. Don't watch if you can't stand Apple gear getting destroyed.

[centermedic]

AT&T wouldn't be half the carrier they are now without 3 1/2 years of iPhone exclusivity. Verizon would have stayed number 1 all the way through, and we would be stuck with Windows Mobile and Blackberry.

 

T-Mobile would have been out the door and Sprint would be clinging for dear life if not already dead.

 

 

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

I disagree. If Apple opened up to all carriers from the onset they would have had a bigger impact on the us cell industry. As a result Verizon would have been further ahead, AT&T would be a weak second at best and Sprint and T-Mobile would be stronger. Additionally, Android probably would not be as strong as it is. I fear there was no scenario that would have saved Windows and Blackberry.

[twospirits]

Seems like a good place to put this. Don't watch if you can't stand Apple gear getting destroyed.

 

Let me start by saying that even as a Android guy, I still feel that destroying an Apple iProduct is uncalled for, even if they are old as Moses. With that said. The guy can't shoot for shit. First shot he almost didn't hit the first on line of sight device and misses the second one. WTF.

 

Anyway, just had to say that, carry on with the topic at hand.

 

TS

[travismheim]

Let me start by saying that even as a Android guy, I still feel that destroying an Apple iProduct is uncalled for, even if they are old as Moses. With that said. The guy can't shoot for shit. First shot he almost didn't hit the first on line of sight device and misses the second one. WTF.

 

Anyway, just had to say that, carry on with the topic at hand.

 

TS

Yeah I am surprised how he missed like that. I just figured if we are going to have a thread dedicated to slamming Apple I would post it. Especially since its not the usual blender/hammer/bending crap that gets shown.

 

Back on topic, my main problem with Apple product also happens to be what I like about their stuff. The closed ecosystem seems to allow all of their stuff to work together better, but it also prevents a lot of the customization I've come to love with Android. I also don't care for how much they mark up some of their products, especially computers.

[MacinJosh]

I disagree. If Apple opened up to all carriers from the onset they would have had a bigger impact on the us cell industry. As a result Verizon would have been further ahead, AT&T would be a weak second at best and Sprint and T-Mobile would be stronger. Additionally, Android probably would not be as strong as it is. I fear there was no scenario that would have saved Windows and Blackberry.

 

Blackberry has too hard of a time embracing change. They keep wanting those archaic physical keyboards. But Apple opening up to all carriers at the beginning? That would never have happened. As for Android, their market share may have been lower than it is now, but I don't think by much.

[MacinJosh]

Yeah I am surprised how he missed like that. I just figured if we are going to have a thread dedicated to slamming Apple I would post it. Especially since its not the usual blender/hammer/bending crap that gets shown.

 

Back on topic, my main problem with Apple product also happens to be what I like about their stuff. The closed ecosystem seems to allow all of their stuff to work together better, but it also prevents a lot of the customization I've come to love with Android. I also don't care for how much they mark up some of their products, especially computers.

 

That closed ecosystem is why I prefer Apple. Just the fact that I'm less susceptible to computer viruses makes me that much happier. Gatekeeper on OS X has been wonderful. At least I know I won't be opening anything that is a security threat to my computer.

[twospirits]

Ok, I'll bite. I was going to post two things but noticed that this Business insider article listed them already and a few more that I agree with. So I'll just post the link instead.

 

10 Things we really hate about Apple.

 

Now I'm sure one can find a similar article for Google. 

 

anyway, as for the topic at hand, lets see them one by one.

1-Apple greatly bolstered AT&T -- with an exclusive, multiyear iPhone contract.  What if that had never happened?

2-Or what if the iPhone had never existed?

3-How would that have affected the domestic wireless industry landscape, presently?

 

#1 can't be answered until #2 is addressed. So lets start with that one first.

The iPhone would have existed simply because up to that point in time, cell phone makers were

A-making phones that had an input for every simple function of the phone.

B-Touch input was an afterthought

C-An ecosystem that did not present the user with visuals, simplicity software and applications in one device.

 

The LG Prada built around the same time had a touch screen and that alone is proof that it would not have mattered if the iPhone existed since mobile technology and design was already going in that direction. Apple just combined all the items A thru C mentioned above to make a truly unique device. But if it didn't exist, design was headed in that direction anyway.

So to answer # 2, yes it wouldn't matter if the iPhone never existed.

 

To Answer # 1,

If the answer to 2 is no it doesn't matter if iPhone existed, then The answer to #1 would be it didn't happened. What could have happened was that all carriers would have got on the Touch Screen bandwagon for the Prada and other similar devices and carry them.

But since it does exist, then AT&T would have been the only one with the resources to offer the iPhone since it was only GSM at the time.

 

I can't answer the 3rd one since I am not technical in any way shape or form, but my gut instinct tells me that the landscape would be much more different if the iPhone didn't exist.

 

TS

[centermedic]

Blackberry has too hard of a time embracing change. They keep wanting those archaic physical keyboards. But Apple opening up to all carriers at the beginning? That would never have happened. As for Android, their market share may have been lower than it is now, but I don't think by much.

We are dealing with hypothetical s here. I still think Apple missed a huge opportunity by dealing with AT&T exclusively. Remember, Android gained traction because you could only get an I-phone on AT&T. So you had the other four carriers actively pushing Android. If Apple had opened up earlier I really do not think Android would have had a chance to flourish the way it has.

[MacinJosh]

We are dealing with hypothetical s here. I still think Apple missed a huge opportunity by dealing with AT&T exclusively. Remember, Android gained traction because you could only get an I-phone on AT&T. So you had the other four carriers actively pushing Android. If Apple had opened up earlier I really do not think Android would have had a chance to flourish the way it has.

 

I think Android would have flourished, but not in the way it did.

[MtnSierraSprint]

Apple greatly bolstered AT&T -- with an exclusive, multiyear iPhone contract.  What if that had never happened?  Or what if the iPhone had never existed?  How would that have affected the domestic wireless industry landscape, presently?

 

AJ

 

This is testing my memory a bit. One of the inadvertant benefits of the exclusive agreement is that it forced the competition (the other wireless carriers) to find an alternative, which gave Android a chance to match and surpas the iPhone in many respects. Unfortunately in the end that resulted in another duopoly - Android/iOS, and iTunes/App Store and Google Play. If I have a rant it is that you can not buy apps at a store like you can any other software application not to mention buy from the developers themselves and sideload it. I do not like being forced to do business and buy products from Google and Apple.

[travismheim]

This is testing my memory a bit. One of the inadvertant benefits of the exclusive agreement is that it forced the competition (the other wireless carriers) to find an alternative, which gave Android a chance to match and surpas the iPhone in many respects. Unfortunately in the end that resulted in another duopoly - Android/iOS, and iTunes/App Store and Google Play. If I have a rant it is that you can not buy apps at a store like you can any other software application not to mention buy from the developers themselves and sideload it. I do not like being forced to do business and buy products from Google and Apple.

You can buy from developers and side load it on Android. They don't do this because its easier to get paid listing apps on Google play.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[MtnSierraSprint]

You can buy from developers and side load it on Android. They don't do this because its easier to get paid listing apps on Google play.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

Yes, the option exists on Android, but how many mainstream apps can you actually buy direct? I do not disagree with you regarding why developers use Google Play, but I still wish Google, Apple, Amazon were not just about the only choices you have to purchase apps. Having so few companies controling the point of sale does not seem healthy to me nor promote a truely free market. The other issue is that these companies use their near complete control of the point of sale to gather information and track your buying habits. I know for many people that is a non issue, but I hold the point of view you should be able to buy things without one or two companies packaging your information and purschasing history and then selling that data to others. I am glad to see some effective push back beginning to happen regarding effective tracking counter-meassures. I actually have had a constructive exchange despite our different points of view with the author of this article concerning iOS 9 and Ad Blocking over at Infoworld. It is unfortunate that right now one has to make the choice between privacy and content creators being fairly compensated for their work.

 

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2976281/web-browsers/apple-ios-9-ad-blockers-dangerous-new-heights.html

 

I welcome the progress Apple is making allowing for a higher level of privacy on the web, but I am still concerned about the lack of control over what apps can do. There are still holes in terms of Permissions that the User has no control over such as MAC Address, Internet Access, and stuff like Google Analytics.

 

 

I hope the momentum for greater privacy and control of tracking on personal devices and systems continues to build and produce more effective and comprehensive solutions.

[xenadu]

How quickly everyone forgets history.

 

Do you guys not remember Sprint and Verizon locking out features of phones just because they could? The carriers were 100% in control of all software on phones, period.

 

Without the iPhone there would be no app store as we know it today. That was Apple's real genius move: Apple controls the software, the iOS update cycle, and the app store. Take it or leave it. The exclusive agreement with ATT wasn't by Apple's choice, it was ATT's blood price to deign to allow Apple onto their precious network. Verizon was Apple's original choice and told them to go take a hike. 

 

I know from personal experience that trying to write software for phones pre-iPhone was a joke. You had to buy expensive development kits, then go to each carrier and beg their permission to develop an app for their unique snowflake of a store. Then their team of "experts" (read: idiots) would demand you make changes to your app. Then they'd allow it in the store, charge $7 for it, and take 80% of the revenue. 

 

Apple broke the backs of the carriers. Android wouldn't be allowed to do half of what it does if the carriers hadn't been desperate to combat the iPhone. You can see that legacy in the fact that all Android updates (except Nexus) have to be approved by each carrier individually. 

 

 

We should also remember that the idea of a phone really being a pocket computer that happens to have a cellular radio was very niche at the time. Geeks like us had them but the vast majority of people did not. I remember having to install custom ROMs and a registry editor and task manager on my Windows Mobile phones (yes all three of them) just to be able to kill tasks or turn off services that made them unstable or ate battery like crazy. No normal person had a hope of working one of them. 

 

 

As for the idea that the LG Prada was touch... yeah, so what? My Windows Mobile phones were "touch". They sure as hell weren't designed for touch though and the gulf between those phones and the iPhone was enormous. Not that those were unique... The Apple Newton did it before they did. And others did it before Apple originally. It is very rare for the first iteration of an idea to be successful or even good. No one cares about the inventor of the car, they care about Ford because he made cars mass-market. No one cares who invented the mouse; are PCs invalid because Apple shipped the first mass-market mouse? No. (I'm not even getting into the argument of whether Apple "stole" the Xerox PARC stuff - they didn't, Apple paid thousands in stock to Xerox for the privilege of touring PARC and using what they saw - stock that was ultimately worth billions)

 

 

 

So the answer to the question is that without the iPhone the carriers would still be firmly in control of the phones like they were in the pre-iPhone days. There wouldn't be huge app stores with $0.99 apps. OEMs would still grovel at the feet of the carriers. 

 

Without exclusivity ATT would not have grown to the behemoth they became. That is unfortunate but it is the industry's own fault for laboring under the delusion that they are anything other than a dumb pipe to move data around.

 

Sprint was never in the running because of their awful Nextel merger. Given their cash position and everything else I think the fact that they jumped on the iPhone as soon as possible speaks to the economics of the deal. They aren't stupid. 

 

That goes for the rest of the world too... many a carrier has proclaimed they didn't need the iPhone and wouldn't bow down to Apple. Thousands have changed their tune. They didn't want to give up control either but their customers had different ideas.

[xenadu]

We are dealing with hypothetical s here. I still think Apple missed a huge opportunity by dealing with AT&T exclusively. Remember, Android gained traction because you could only get an I-phone on AT&T. So you had the other four carriers actively pushing Android. If Apple had opened up earlier I really do not think Android would have had a chance to flourish the way it has.

 

See my post above; your premise is incorrect. Exclusivity was AT&T's blood price for allowing Apple to sell the iPhone on their network. It wasn't Apple's choice. Steve Jobs was so angry at the carriers for being assholes he had a team seriously explore the idea of building their own cellular network or using WiFi. AT&T (Cingular) at the time took a risk and it seems to have paid off.