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The Iphone 5s & Iphone 5c [not Tri-Band LTE] (was "Next iPhone to be announced on September 10")

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nobius    459

No no no, that's not what I'm saying. Every user that is stuck on older technologies is a burden on the network. Every iPhone in 2017 that can't use TD-LTE 2600 is a burden on BC 25 and 26. Every iPhone 4S that can't use BC10 in 2017 is a dissatisfied customer stuck on PCS, while everyone around them gets much better service. 

 

But that's a reality with any new hardware because of two-year contracts.  You're always going to have a large amount of people between upgrades that can't move to the new model.  I don't know that I'd call it a burden, as I'm sure carriers are happy to not have to subsidize every single user every single year.

 

And it still gets offloaded one way or another.  Since I'm on an iPhone 5 in Houston, I'm only on 1900.  New Sprint iPhone 5C/S users in Houston will also get to offload to LTE 800.  Houston is a 2600 market, so non-iPhone users can offload to 2600, making for less users on 1900 (good for me) and less users on 800 (good for new iPhone users) and the 2600 users will have no iPhone users on their band (good for non-iPhone users).  So it balances out among the three bands even if everyone isn't using tri-band phones.  

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gnoj    386

Most does not necessarily equal all.  That is the point.  A 20 MHz FDD carrier with 2x2 MIMO, for example, is capable of 150 Mbps on the downlink.  A category 3 baseband maxes out at 100 Mbps.

 

AJ

 

I didn't realize that 20 MHz FDD could provide that much bandwidth. I figured it would be similar to 20 MHz TDD. The need for Cat 4+ makes sense now. :tu:

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It appears that the SoftBank/KDDI support embodied in iPhone 5c/5s models A1456/A1453 is for bands 1 & 8.  On the whole these two SKUs appear to have decent global roaming capability (if Sprint enables).  The notable ommissions are Band 7 for Europe and Band 28 for Oceania.  Otherwise, it covers the most pervasive LTE bands worldwide.

 

See:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks and https://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/ to cross-reference which band is for what operator. 

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WiWavelength    31,437

Yes, the nice thing about the dual band iPhone 5S/5C is that some of us soon to be tri band users may be able to force band 41 to get away from the iPhoners.  As a geographer, I liken it to "white flight" out of the city and into the suburbs.

 

:P

 

AJ

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koiulpoi    1,286

But that's a reality with any new hardware because of two-year contracts.  You're always going to have a large amount of people between upgrades that can't move to the new model.  I don't know that I'd call it a burden, as I'm sure carriers are happy to not have to subsidize every single user every single year.

Except... in this case, we have new hardware unable to use the new technology. I'm talking about the reality where Sprint's 5x5 FDD-LTE is already overburdened in certain areas, as is VZW's 10x10 FDD-LTE. Data usage is exploding, and not showing any signs of slowing down. The more equipped the carriers are to deal with this, the better.

 

For the record, I'm completely with you that we should have seen Tri-Band versions of devices like the HTC One and Samsung Galaxy S4, as those will keep selling for quite some time. Can't change the past, best we can do is push people in to a Tri-Band device to give them the best experience. Without a Tri-Band iPhone, I can't do that for people I'd recommend an iPhone for, and it's going to be frustrating.

 

And it still gets offloaded one way or another.  Since I'm on an iPhone 5 in Houston, I'm only on 1900.  New Sprint iPhone 5C/S users in Houston will also get to offload to LTE 800.  Houston is a 2600 market, so non-iPhone users can offload to 2600, making for less users on 1900 (good for me) and less users on 800 (good for new iPhone users) and the 2600 users will have no iPhone users on their band (good for non-iPhone users).  So it balances out among the three bands even if everyone isn't using tri-band phones.

Having fewer options for incredibly popular devices to use isn't a good thing. Sure, it might end up being an "okay" thing, like you said, and it might even itself out. But that doesn't mean it's not disappointing.
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ericdabbs    1,935

Except... in this case, we have new hardware unable to use the new technology. I'm talking about the reality where Sprint's 5x5 FDD-LTE is already overburdened in certain areas, as is VZW's 10x10 FDD-LTE. Data usage is exploding, and not showing any signs of slowing down. The more equipped the carriers are to deal with this, the better.

 

Sprint will deploy another 5x5 LTE carrier within the next 2 years to provide more capacity at 1900 due to the large number of devices in the future that can only support LTE 1900.

 

I think once NV 1.0 is complete in another 1.5 years and 1xA can be deployed with 4x voice capacity on every Sprint tower, Sprint can shut down excess 1x voice carriers and 3G carriers if need be to free up more spectrum for another 5x5 LTE carrier.

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koiulpoi    1,286

Sprint will deploy another 5x5 LTE carrier within the next 2 years to provide more capacity at 1900 due to the large number of devices in the future that can only support LTE 1900.

Yes, I know. They'll have to, in part, because of a huge number of iPhones being sold that won't be able to use the 160 MHz of 2600 TDD-LTE. Are you seeing my point, yet? ;)
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sbolen    2,770

Brand loyalty runs strong in this thread. :)

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Yuhfhrh    743

The folks over at NSA are jumping for joy after this announcement. What a nice fingerprint database they will have!  :P

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rf40928    198

*I* know that speeds aren't all that important. But my Verizon friends are happy enough to show off their "amazing" speeds all the time, even though it's pointless. 

 

So a lot of people aren't going to want to carry around a phablet (blegh) but say they have the S4 Mini which is also Tri-Band?

 

Robert saw speeds in the 40s and 50s simply because of backhaul. I know that in NYC, faster backhaul is available, whether it's in use yet, I don't know.

 

Throwing all these new iPhones onto the PCS LTE network will just cripple it faster. Adding 800 doesn't do much for a city like New York where the site spacing is so dense. Or for that matter, a city with good PCS spacing such that you don't drop to 800 unless you are in a basement or on the fringe signal. 

 

 

 

Clear LTE is live in NYC proper, it's been tested. The site spacing in NYC is so tight, that you wouldn't even need to use all of them to create a blanked of 2500 LTE. If you are out in the open, there will be no issue getting a signal. Inside, I don't know.

 

koiulpoi has said things much better than I can. Basically, continuing to populate the network with outdated technology is not a good thing.

 

Yeah well I guess if you want to look at it that way - My co worker that just upgraded from the Samsung S2 got her Galaxy S4 brand new last month is gonna be stuck on LTE 1900.  And there are a lot more people on this network stuck with 1900 LTE phones for a duration.  Alot of us upgrade when we have those options available and the money as well, so while some will get new iPhones now ( or new ANY KIND of phone  ) the vast majority of Sprint's network users will probably still be on 1900 phones for another year - so how much does this matter.  Many folks riding this network are not technically savvy or aware of Sprint's tri-band plans.  I work with 4 people who know little to nothing except for their speed is slow in my market.

 

If we all lived in NYC and had to worry about getting TD LTE that would be awesome - but the truth is nearly 1/4 of Sprint market is ( like me ) in the 4th round market NV rollout - still waiting for 1900 LTE.  So you know what ?  When LTE 800 rolls out in another 10-12 months for most customers ( I'll likely have 1900 within 5 months )I'll hopefully be saying what I beleive - it was worth the wait. And we'll also be saying where is the 2600 we talked about 10 months ago ? Not here yet - at least for me..

 

If I'm saying it was worth the wait - I'll then be looking forward to Sprint's NV 2.0 which begins at the end of 2014.. but lets face it.. by the time most of us ( Sprint's network ) actually need 2600 LTE phones ..we'll just upgrade to a new phone that supports 3 bands or even possibly have to switch carriers.  I've only stayed with Sprint this long on the knowledge of unlimited data - not speed.  I'm not staying with Sprint because I believe they will be "consistently the fastest carrier" nationwide.

 

I would've liked to buy a new iPhone that supports 2600 - although I wouldn't even be able to use it for a LONG time and have the option to sell it, but that's also the scenario many who just bought Galaxy S4's ( or comparable Android phones ) are also facing - except they don't even have LTE 800 as an option.  Most people on this network do not have the options to even upgrade, nor even utilize a 2600 connection and probably won't for a long time.  If you can use it 5 months before me I applaud you. I'm more concerned about getting 1900 LTE working in my area right now and having SOME LTE. 

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themuffinman    2,592

I'm still getting a 5S on Sprint after the first of October. And then next year I'll get the iPhone 6 when my upgrade comes up. I'll sell my 5 to subsidize the cost of the 5S. I'll be happy either way.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

So you go cheap on your android devices but go balls to the wall on anything iphone?  :P

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MacinJosh    3,988

So you go cheap on your android devices but go balls to the wall on anything iphone? :P

Not entirely. My next Android phone will be a flagship, but now, I'm not sure when that will be. I'll probably wait until the GS5.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

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WiWavelength    31,437

So you go cheap on your android devices but go balls to the wall on anything iphone?  :P

 

Josh is not really human.  He is actually an android, so he goes all out iPhone, only lukewarm Android as a distraction to try to keep his cover.

 

:P

 

AJ 

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ericdabbs    1,935

Yes, I know. They'll have to, in part, because of a huge number of iPhones being sold that won't be able to use the 160 MHz of 2600 TDD-LTE. Are you seeing my point, yet? ;)

 

I already understood your point from the time you made your post.  Trust I have been there with the GS4 and how annoyed I was when it wasn't triband LTE and shouting "how dare ye Sprint still releaseth single band LTE phones in 2013 when LTE 800 and LTE 2600 are around the corner".  If you don't believe me check out my posts right in the GS4 thread after the GS4 announcement.  I have learned to deal with it and I am sure Sprint is not happy about this but what can you do. As for me this doesn't concern me since I have no plans to get an iPhone anyways. 

 

The 1900 band won't be as bad as you think if you think about it in the future especially when you consider that Sprint will most likely add another 5x5 LTE carrier in the next 2 years, 800 MHz LTE will be coming online soon to offload to and triband phone devices like the Note 3, LG G2, etc this year will be offloaded to LTE 2600 in those markets launched currently.  As more LTE 2600 comes online those Android users will fall off onto LTE 2600 and won't be using up the LTE 1900 resources.  I am not too worried about LTE 1900 only phones getting 1 Mbps speeds on LTE when there are so many opportunities for other devices in the very near future for offloading into new bands.

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themuffinman    2,592

Josh is not really human.  He is actually an android, so he goes all out iPhone, only lukewarm Android as a distraction to try to keep his cover.

 

:P

 

AJ 

LOL, that does make sense.

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thewezgrays    386

Brand loyalty runs strong in this thread. :)

THIS... I am seeing a lot of "iXXX" people in here convincing themselves it is all good. If you are rural like me and stay rural, great! It will be okay... But if you are urban a top 20 or 30 market (dense population), I personally would run fast from the lack of 2600... (I really feel for you NYC guys i guys and the Denver i person too)...

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ericdabbs    1,935

Not entirely. My next Android phone will be a flagship, but now, I'm not sure when that will be. I'll probably wait until the GS5.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

 

So I take it that you won't be upgrading to the iPhone 5S?

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sbolen    2,770

THIS... I am seeing a lot of "iXXX" people in here convincing themselves it is all good. If you are rural like me and stay rural, great! It will be okay... But if you are urban a top 20 or 30 market (dense population), I personally would run fast from the lack of 2600... (I really feel for you NYC guys i guys and the Denver i person too)...

 

I think you just gotta go with the phone/device/carrier that suits your needs the best. For me, that's an iPhone. For my budget and data usage, that's Sprint. For my career (iOS designer/developer), these decisions are largely a no-brainer.

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MacinJosh    3,988

So I take it that you won't be upgrading to the iPhone 5S?

Yes, first of October. I'm paying for it outright.

I have 2 lines on my Sprint account, that's why I can get the GS5 next year.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

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rf40928    198

Picture this. You're in Times Square, one of your friends has a shiny new iPhone 5S. The other has a Note 3 (Tri-Band). Because speed tests are the only thing that matters in a network (sarcasm) you decide to run a speedtest.

 

The Note pulls a blazing 68Mbps download. The iPhone putters along at 5 or 6Mbps. So there must be something wrong with the iPhone right? I mean, they're both on Sprint, so shouldn't they get the same speeds? They both say LTE? What's the deal!!?!

 

iPhone users will be at a disadvantage and the average user might think something is wrong. LTE 800 doesn't fix any of that, it should have been Tri-Band. 

 

 

 

Anything I've found on the Galaxy Note 3 says it'll support 800/1900, but nothing as of yet  saying it'll support Sprint's 2500 by the way..

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lilotimz    10,869

Anything I've found on the Galaxy Note 3 says it'll support 800/1900, but nothing as of yet  saying it'll support Sprint's 2500 by the way..

 

Deductive  Inductive reasoning. S4 Mini has triband support with a S400 so there's no reason a Note 3 with a S800 does not have triband support. 

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jamesinclair    713

800 LTE only requires a carrier card and a firmware update. Won't take to long to deploy

 

Wasnt the same said of CDMA 800? I remember discussion that once Nextel went away, 800 would explode....

 

Sort of hasnt happened that quickly.

 

 

Yes but in very few markets.  For the majority of the US, this doesn't apply.

 

Its the whole density thing.

 

You can cover the "majority" of the US in something like 10 markets.

 

Anyone know what percentage of the country was covered by wi-max?

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lilotimz    10,869

Wasnt the same said of CDMA 800? I remember discussion that once Nextel went away, 800 would explode....

 

Sort of hasnt happened that quickly.

 

 

 

Its the whole density thing.

 

You can cover the "majority" of the US in something like 10 markets.

 

Anyone know what percentage of the country was covered by wi-max?

 

CDMA 800 1x requires a lot more than just a flip of a switch as it's not just pure data. Lots of testing to be done such as drive tests to ensure that it transfers a call from tower to tower just fine and that 911 functions are not broken or inaccurate. LTE 800, as a pure data network, just needs to be turned on and it's fine.

 

Wimax was deployed in about 60 major markets and was quite good. Biggest issue was penetration as wimax tops out at -80s RSSI which should be less problematic now as TD-LTE is good to -100s and you get a handoff to LTE 1900 or 800 if it gets too low instead of plumping down to legacy 3g.

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nobius    459

THIS... I am seeing a lot of "iXXX" people in here convincing themselves it is all good. If you are rural like me and stay rural, great! It will be okay... But if you are urban a top 20 or 30 market (dense population), I personally would run fast from the lack of 2600... (I really feel for you NYC guys i guys and the Denver i person too)...

I see plenty of Android people almost giddy that it doesn't support 2500, turning the topic into a frequency discussion instead of one about the actual merits of the new devices.

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