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The Iphone 5s & Iphone 5c [not Tri-Band LTE] (was "Next iPhone to be announced on September 10")


sbolen

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Picture this. You're in Times Square, one of your friends has a shiny new iPhone 5S. The other has a Note 3 (Tri-Band). Because speed tests are the only thing that matters in a network (sarcasm) you decide to run a speedtest.

 

The Note pulls a blazing 68Mbps download. The iPhone putters along at 5 or 6Mbps. So there must be something wrong with the iPhone right? I mean, they're both on Sprint, so shouldn't they get the same speeds? They both say LTE? What's the deal!!?!

 

iPhone users will be at a disadvantage and the average user might think something is wrong. LTE 800 doesn't fix any of that, it should have been Tri-Band.

 

Yes but there are 2 problems with LTE 2600 right now to poke a hole in your scenario. 

 

1)  Only about a little over 2,000+ sites have been converted to LTE 2600 and we don't have a map to find out which Clearwire sites have been converted to LTE 2600 within each market.

 

2)  LTE 2600 is only live in about 8 markets in only certain areas.  We don't know even know how widespread LTE 2600 is in NYC.

 

While your scenario can occur, I wouldn't put much emphasis on that.  Who really cares if the Note 3 can beat the iPhone in speedtests.  Besides the iPhone 5S is not using the latest Qualcomm baseband and is not Cat 4 certified anyways.  Someone from Charlotte, Philly, Detroit, San Diego, Dallas, Houston, etc would easily do the same test and easily argue that this is not the case that the Note 3 would be much much faster than the iPhone.

 

Yes I agree that the iPhone 5S should have been triband but its Apple you are dealing with.  If Sprint had full control of the specs, I am sure they would have loved to include B41 in the specs.  But alas it is Apple that has the final word.

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800 LTE is installed with NV, it will be turned on later this year.

 

25/2600 LTE is active already in at least 8 markets, and is actively being upgraded in many more.

 

Most WiMax markets will be live with 25/2600 LTE by this time next year, if not before. By then Sprint will be adding it to other markets as well.

 

If it's only in 8 markets, perhaps it wasn't worth the effort to add support for 2600 now.  

 

You know, those saying that it's OK to not have 2500 because it's not rolled out, and/or that the iPhone 6 next year will have it, are a bit off base.

 

You're forgetting that people buy phones on 2-year contracts. You're forgetting that there is a huge market for the "non-flagship" device. That, until September 20th, Sprint will still be selling the iPhone 4, a phone originally from 2010, launched 2011 on Sprint. There are people that will have the iPhone 4 until 2015. If this trend holds, and we sell the 5C/5S for 2 years, that means that we could have people buying them in the end of 2015, using them until 2017.

 

2017 is a long time to have to support devices that aren't forwards-compatible. It runs pretty counter to the idea of network modernization (and trying to do it as quickly as possible), especially with such a high selling device as the iPhone. It definitely matters, and is definitely disappointing.

 

Let me also point out that, by including the 4S as the "free" phone, we'll have devices unable to use 1XA on 800 SMR until 2017 as well. How fun.

 

The iPhone 4/S isn't even LTE on Sprint, so not having 2600 is the least of those folks problems.  

 

I have the iPhone 5, which doesn't supporter LTE 800, so I'll be missing out on that for at least a year.

 

I imagine the folks in Sprint stores will be doing a hard  sell to get people to at least spend $100 on their iPhone to get the baseline 5C and get LTE, which also gets them 800.

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Yup FCC docs confirm that there is no SVLTE support and B25 (1900) and B26 (800) LTE support.

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I need a durable case, most durable iPhone 5 cases cover the home button...dilemma.

 

I wonder how well the 5s Touch ID will work with those thick screen protectors on waterproof cases like the LifeProof.  

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Picture this. You're in Times Square, one of your friends has a shiny new iPhone 5S. The other has a Note 3 (Tri-Band). Because speed tests are the only thing that matters in a network (sarcasm) you decide to run a speedtest.

 

The Note pulls a blazing 68Mbps download. The iPhone putters along at 5 or 6Mbps. So there must be something wrong with the iPhone right? I mean, they're both on Sprint, so shouldn't they get the same speeds? They both say LTE? What's the deal!!?!

 

iPhone users will be at a disadvantage and the average user might think something is wrong. LTE 800 doesn't fix any of that, it should have been Tri-Band. 

 

 

The bragging right is definitely great, but not everyone likes carrying a mini tablet.  Also, in most circumstances it's like comparing Sprint LTE to ATT LTE - you don't notice the speed in most cases.. You only need about 2 to 3 Mb/s to stream HD video.  Peak speeds don't make webpages load any faster.  

 

Also when Robert, the Admin, was in Colorado speeds averaged closer to  40's I believe - and this is on a network with VERY LITTLE LOAD.  2500/2600 in downtown NYC will likely not hit anywhere near 40 Mb/s because it'll be VERY LOADED ... If anything it won't matter that HOPEFULLY enough people will have 2500/2600 enabled devices that they will offload 1900/800 for the rest - which is whole purpose of 2500/2600 right ? To offload traffic and keep a balance of user experience of people on other Sprint bands.

 

 

If anyone like me has Time Warner for cable or internet:  I went to NYC nearly 2 years ago I hit mid 30's in the morning before Sprint even had LTE running.  All time warner customers ( regardless of what state your from ) can use their user login and get free Time warner Wi-Fi .. and NYC is a Time Warner wifi city..

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Picture this. You're in Times Square, one of your friends has a shiny new iPhone 5S. The other has a Note 3 (Tri-Band). Because speed tests are the only thing that matters in a network (sarcasm) you decide to run a speedtest.

 

The Note pulls a blazing 68Mbps download. The iPhone putters along at 5 or 6Mbps. So there must be something wrong with the iPhone right? I mean, they're both on Sprint, so shouldn't they get the same speeds? They both say LTE? What's the deal!!?!

 

iPhone users will be at a disadvantage and the average user might think something is wrong. LTE 800 doesn't fix any of that, it should have been Tri-Band. 

 

 

 

Right, but when John's speeds are a tenth of those with new android phones around him, he's going to wonder what's wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

800 LTE is installed with NV, it will be turned on later this year.

 

25/2600 LTE is active already in at least 8 markets, and is actively being upgraded in many more.

 

Most WiMax markets will be live with 25/2600 LTE by this time next year, if not before. By then Sprint will be adding it to other markets as well.

 

 

 

It's both.

Will 2600 MHz penetrate with all the buildings around Time Square??  Will there be a Sprint tower even close enough to get 2600 out to where you're at?  I hear that NY ain't a Sprint town by any sort of imagination!  

 

Likely, both of you will run at the same speed...except that Note 3 will go into limp-home mode with sudden app closure and lagging due to build up files in your system due to bad apps from Play Store.  Ask me why i know this? :)

Edited by tigmd99
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LTE 2600 is not even available in my area and won't be for sometime. Right now I'm concerned about LTE 800 but once Sprint SoftBank deploys LTE on 2600 then I hope the iPhone 6 will support band 41.

 

 

No need to upset when majority of us don't have LTE 2600 in our area. And we all know the deployment for that wont start until next year.

Right. A lot of us don't even have LTE 1900 in our areas yet, so while Tri-Band-capability would've been nice, what good is it if you're still on the legacy network (or in an LTE 1900-only area). Don't get me wrong, I'm still slightly disappointed, it should've been Tri-Band, but who's to say when LTE 2600 will even be available.

 

Just like the 4S, I was a little disappointed when it arrived without LTE, but LTE has yet to exist here, so I didn't miss anything.

Edited by Sonic13
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iPhone 5S/5C teaser article is already up on The Wall.  Give it some love.  We dropped all other priorities today to bring this info/analysis to you, and there is more to come -- maybe even later today.

 

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/entry-352-teaser-iphone-gets-two-new-models-but-no-lte-band-trifecta-on-sprint/

 

AJ

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A few of you are missing the point with questions regarding cases and screen protectors. I've never seen a screen protector that covers the home button. Shouldn't be an issue since, based on the videos, the sensor works by a single touch, and not a swiping motion. And, the latest otterbox defenders will probably even have a missing home button area.

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The bragging right is definitely great, but not everyone likes carrying a mini tablet. Also, in most circumstances it's like comparing Sprint LTE to ATT LTE - you don't notice the speed in most cases.. You only need about 2 to 3 Mb/s to stream HD video. Peak speeds don't make webpages load any faster.

 

Also when Robert, the Admin, was in Colorado speeds averaged closer to 40's I believe - and this is on a network with VERY LITTLE LOAD. 2500/2600 in downtown NYC will likely not hit anywhere near 40 Mb/s because it'll be VERY LOADED ... If anything it won't matter that HOPEFULLY enough people will have 2500/2600 enabled devices that they will offload 1900/800 for the rest - which is whole purpose of 2500/2600 right ? To offload traffic and keep a balance of user experience of people on other Sprint bands.

 

 

If anyone like me has Time Warner for cable or internet: I went to NYC nearly 2 years ago I hit mid 30's in the morning before Sprint even had LTE running. All time warner customers ( regardless of what state your from ) can use their user login and get free Time warner Wi-Fi .. and NYC is a Time Warner wifi city..

$

 

The speeds were limited by the wifi speed.

 

Sent from my SPH-D710

 

 

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You know, those saying that it's OK to not have 2500 because it's not rolled out, and/or that the iPhone 6 next year will have it, are a bit off base.

 

You're forgetting that people buy phones on 2-year contracts. You're forgetting that there is a huge market for the "non-flagship" device. That, until September 20th, Sprint will still be selling the iPhone 4, a phone originally from 2010, launched 2011 on Sprint. There are people that will have the iPhone 4 until 2015. If this trend holds, and we sell the 5C/5S for 2 years, that means that we could have people buying them in the end of 2015, using them until 2017.

 

2017 is a long time to have to support devices that aren't forwards-compatible. It runs pretty counter to the idea of network modernization (and trying to do it as quickly as possible), especially with such a high selling device as the iPhone. It definitely matters, and is definitely disappointing.

 

Let me also point out that, by including the 4S as the "free" phone, we'll have devices unable to use 1XA on 800 SMR until 2017 as well. How fun.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that the iPhone 5S should not have been triband because LTE 2600 network is not there.  However we are dealing with Apple here and they dictate what specs will go into the phone.  I am sure Sprint in a perfect world would have loved to see the iPhone 5S be triband but what can you do when you deal with Apple?  As someone pointed out to me earlier, the Sprint/Softbank deal was not closed yet by the time Apple began building the iPhone 5S and might not have had the buying power to demand B41 to be included into its devices.  You can bet that Softbank/Sprint will fight real hard next year to have B41 included in the iPhone 6.

 

Yes it does suck that LTE phones such as the iPhone 5S that don't support all the LTE bands could still be in operation up until 2017 but keep in mind that the GS4 and HTC One were only single band LTE phones as well which have zero flexibility to offload onto other bands and fall victim to the same fate.  At least the iPhone 5S can offload to 800 MHz.  It would be unfair to put the blame all on the iPhone when HTC and Samsung are equally as guilty with the GS4 and HTC One.  At the end of the day, customers just care about being connected to LTE and only nerds like us are analyzing the LTE traffic issue for the future.

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Yes but there are 2 problems with LTE 2600 right now to poke a hole in your scenario. 

 

1)  Only about a little over 2,000+ sites have been converted to LTE 2600 and we don't have a map to find out which Clearwire sites have been converted to LTE 2600 within each market.

 

2)  LTE 2600 is only live in about 8 markets in only certain areas.  We don't know even know how widespread LTE 2600 is in NYC.

 

While your scenario can occur, I wouldn't put much emphasis on that.  Who really cares if the Note 3 can beat the iPhone in speedtests.  Besides the iPhone 5S is not using the latest Qualcomm baseband and is not Cat 4 certified anyways.  Someone from Charlotte, Philly, Detroit, San Diego, Dallas, Houston, etc would easily do the same test and easily argue that this is not the case that the Note 3 would be much much faster than the iPhone.

 

Yes I agree that the iPhone 5S should have been triband but its Apple you are dealing with.  If Sprint had full control of the specs, I am sure they would have loved to include B41 in the specs.  But alas it is Apple that has the final word.

 

Apple does have the final word, and they will regret not listening to Sprint and including tri-band. A speed test, rightly or wrongly, is used by many to measure a network or device's data capabilities because it is simple to do. Sprint will be selling the 5S through 2017, and well before that year there will be plenty of examples of Android or Windows tri-band phones that are outrunning the 5S.

 

Two years from now (which is how long most keep their phone), most if not all Sprint/Clear sites will be broadcasting LTE 2600. The points you raised about limited availability will be a moot point soon enough.

 

Also, UE Cat 3 is capable of 102 Mbps down/ 51 Mbps up, and since the initial LTE 2600 deployment will only use one 20 MHz carrier (with a theoretical peak speed of 90 Mbps), UE Cat 4 wouldn't be necessary anyway.  Cat 4 and up (technically Cat 6 and up) is only for LTE-A networks, which haven't begun to be deployed in North America just yet.

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The iPhone 4/S isn't even LTE on Sprint, so not having 2600 is the least of those folks problems.  

 

I have the iPhone 5, which doesn't supporter LTE 800, so I'll be missing out on that for at least a year.

 

I imagine the folks in Sprint stores will be doing a hard  sell to get people to at least spend $100 on their iPhone to get the baseline 5C and get LTE, which also gets them 800.

No no no, that's not what I'm saying. Every user that is stuck on older technologies is a burden on the network. Every iPhone in 2017 that can't use TD-LTE 2600 is a burden on BC 25 and 26. Every iPhone 4S that can't use BC10 in 2017 is a dissatisfied customer stuck on PCS, while everyone around them gets much better service. 

 

Sprint store employees won't be pushing the higher end phones for the "hard sell". That's not the reality of selling phones. Sure, I will, but I'm far and away from your average store employee. But most will be saying "the iPhone 4S is FREE!!!"

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that the iPhone 5S should not have been triband because LTE 2600 network is not there.  However we are dealing with Apple here and they dictate what specs will go into the phone.  I am sure Sprint in a perfect world would have loved to see the iPhone 5S be triband but what can you do when you deal with Apple?  As someone pointed out to me earlier, the Sprint/Softbank deal was not closed yet by the time Apple began building the iPhone 5S and might not have had the buying power to demand B41 to be included into its devices.  You can bet that Softbank/Sprint will fight real hard next year to have B41 included in the iPhone 6.

 

Yes it does suck that LTE phones such as the iPhone 5S that don't support all the LTE bands could still be in operation up until 2017 but keep in mind that the GS4 and HTC One were only single band LTE phones as well which have zero flexibility to offload onto other bands and fall victim to the same fate.  At least the iPhone 5S can offload to 800 MHz.  It would be unfair to put the blame all on the iPhone when HTC and Samsung are equally as guilty with the GS4 and HTC One.  At the end of the day, customers just care about being connected to LTE and only nerds like us are analyzing the LTE traffic issue for the future.

Yes, it sucks. My post was to argue one thing: it matters. It's meaningful, because it's a better customer experience. We can talk back and forth about having to deal with Apple and their supply chains and timing all we want, but in the end, this is a disappointing announcement, for the reasons I said. These phones are going to sell like crazy, and the more phones that can use fewer bands - or even 3G only - the worse off it is for everyone.
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keep in mind that the GS4 and HTC One are only single band LTE phones as well which have zero flexibility to offload onto other bands and fall victim to the same fate.  At least the iPhone 5S can offload to 800 MHz.  It would be unfair to put the blame all on the iPhone when HTC and Samsung are equally as guilty with the GS4 and HTC One.  At the end of the day, customers just care about being connected to LTE and only nerds like us are analyzing the LTE traffic issue for the future.

Very good points. 

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Cat 4 and up (technically Cat 6 and up) is only for LTE-A networks, which haven't begun to be deployed in North America just yet.

 

No, that is incorrect.  While this may be trivial outside of an e-penis measuring contest, a category 3 baseband will limit max throughput on the 15-20 MHz FDD band 4 LTE that VZW and/or T-Mobile may deploy over the next year.

 

AJ

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Apple has the new band support posted to their website: http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

 

LTE band support for Sprint:

 

 

(2100 MHz)(1900 MHz)(1800 MHz)(AWS)(850 MHz)(900 MHz) 13 (700c MHz) 17 (700b MHz) 18 (800 MHz) 19 (800 MHz) 20 (800 DD) 25 (1900 MHz) 26 (800 MHz)
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Apple has the new band support posted to their website: http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

 

LTE band support for Sprint:

 

 

(2100 MHz)(1900 MHz)(1800 MHz)(AWS)(850 MHz)(900 MHz) 13 (700c MHz) 17 (700b MHz) 18 (800 MHz) 19 (800 MHz) 20 (800 DD) 25 (1900 MHz) 26 (800 MHz)

 

 

Welcome to an hour ago...

 

:P

 

AJ

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No, that is incorrect.  While this may be trivial outside of an e-penis measuring contest, a category 3 baseband will limit max throughput on the 15-20 MHz FDD band 4 LTE that VZW and/or T-Mobile may deploy over the next year.

 

AJ

 

To what extent? Why is it rated at 102/51 if it can't support most of that speed?

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To what extent? Why is it rated at 102/51 if it can't support most of that speed?

 

Most does not necessarily equal all.  That is the point.  A 20 MHz FDD carrier with 2x2 MIMO, for example, is capable of 150 Mbps on the downlink.  A category 3 baseband maxes out at 100 Mbps.

 

AJ

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The bragging right is definitely great, but not everyone likes carrying a mini tablet.  Also, in most circumstances it's like comparing Sprint LTE to ATT LTE - you don't notice the speed in most cases.. You only need about 2 to 3 Mb/s to stream HD video.  Peak speeds don't make webpages load any faster.  

 

Also when Robert, the Admin, was in Colorado speeds averaged closer to  40's I believe - and this is on a network with VERY LITTLE LOAD.  2500/2600 in downtown NYC will likely not hit anywhere near 40 Mb/s because it'll be VERY LOADED ... If anything it won't matter that HOPEFULLY enough people will have 2500/2600 enabled devices that they will offload 1900/800 for the rest - which is whole purpose of 2500/2600 right ? To offload traffic and keep a balance of user experience of people on other Sprint bands.

 

 

If anyone like me has Time Warner for cable or internet:  I went to NYC nearly 2 years ago I hit mid 30's in the morning before Sprint even had LTE running.  All time warner customers ( regardless of what state your from ) can use their user login and get free Time warner Wi-Fi .. and NYC is a Time Warner wifi city..

 

*I* know that speeds aren't all that important. But my Verizon friends are happy enough to show off their "amazing" speeds all the time, even though it's pointless. 

 

So a lot of people aren't going to want to carry around a phablet (blegh) but say they have the S4 Mini which is also Tri-Band?

 

Robert saw speeds in the 40s and 50s simply because of backhaul. I know that in NYC, faster backhaul is available, whether it's in use yet, I don't know.

 

Throwing all these new iPhones onto the PCS LTE network will just cripple it faster. Adding 800 doesn't do much for a city like New York where the site spacing is so dense. Or for that matter, a city with good PCS spacing such that you don't drop to 800 unless you are in a basement or on the fringe signal. 

 

 

Will 2600 MHz penetrate with all the buildings around Time Square??  Will there be a Sprint tower even close enough to get 2600 out to where you're at?  I hear that NY ain't a Sprint town by any sort of imagination!  

 

Likely, both of you will run at the same speed...except that Note 3 will go into limp-home mode with sudden app closure and lagging due to build up files in your system due to bad apps from Play Store.  Ask me why i know this? :)

 

Clear LTE is live in NYC proper, it's been tested. The site spacing in NYC is so tight, that you wouldn't even need to use all of them to create a blanked of 2500 LTE. If you are out in the open, there will be no issue getting a signal. Inside, I don't know.

 

koiulpoi has said things much better than I can. Basically, continuing to populate the network with outdated technology is not a good thing.

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