Jump to content

Network Vision/LTE - West Washington Market (Seattle/Puget Sound Region)


drlovety

Recommended Posts

Went down by the waterfront in downtown Seattle (by the Ferris wheel) and discovered there are a number of new LTE/NR small cells built into the lamp poles. It looks like either T-Mobile or Verizon have built into almost every single lamp pole in the area. The Verizon ones are easier to spot due to the cutout for the mmwave antennas whereas the T-Mobile ones are more solid up top. The T-Mobile small cells appear to have at least B2 and n41, but likely have B66 and maybe n25 as well. 

Unfortunately, neither StreetView or the satellite view on Google Maps incorporate the layout for the area (including the new lamp poles) making them extremely difficult to pin at this moment.

  • Like 2
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Interesting, T-Mobile is demolishing a Sprint B25-only site that even Sprint wasn't using anymore. Sprint moved from that pole to a former Clearwire site on a nearby much taller mast but never demolished this original site. Up through 2021, there was still power to this site. Some time during COVID, the lights on the RRUs were no longer lit. 

https://permitsearch.mybuildingpermit.com/PermitDetails/ENR24-01067/Kirkland

Streetview 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, PedroDaGr8 said:

Interesting, T-Mobile is demolishing a Sprint B25-only site that even Sprint wasn't using anymore. Sprint moved from that pole to a former Clearwire site on a nearby much taller mast but never demolished this original site. Up through 2021, there was still power to this site. Some time during COVID, the lights on the RRUs were no longer lit. 

https://permitsearch.mybuildingpermit.com/PermitDetails/ENR24-01067/Kirkland

Streetview 

Ah—I wish they had kept the south-facing sector on that site. Going south on 132nd is a dead zone until the road curves and becomes 134th. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, RAvirani said:

Ah—I wish they had kept the south-facing sector on that site. Going south on 132nd is a dead zone until the road curves and becomes 134th. 

Oh yeah, last weekend they had finally started the upgrades on eNB 84743 a block away (the former Clearwire site). First time in the area that either AT&T or Verizon had upgraded a tower first before T-Mobile. Hopefully those upgrades will improve the performance down 132nd. I'll test it and let you know when the upgrade goes live. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, PedroDaGr8 said:

Oh yeah, last weekend they had finally started the upgrades on eNB 84743 a block away (the former Clearwire site). First time in the area that either AT&T or Verizon had upgraded a tower first before T-Mobile. Hopefully those upgrades will improve the performance down 132nd. I'll test it and let you know when the upgrade goes live. 

That’s good to hear.

While AT&T has the latest and greatest up on the CC monopole, I believe Verizon is still running omnis on top of the bowling alley there. That whole area really needs some love from Verizon. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RAvirani said:

That’s good to hear.

While AT&T has the latest and greatest up on the CC monopole, I believe Verizon is still running omnis on top of the bowling alley there. That whole area really needs some love from Verizon. 

Holy crap, I just assumed Verizon was on the CC monopole. Those might be some of the oldest equipment in the area. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, PedroDaGr8 said:

Holy crap, I just assumed Verizon was on the CC monopole. Those might be some of the oldest equipment in the area. 

The same equipment is up on a site in Newcastle and a site in the Laurelhurst neighborhood. Both the Crystal Mountain sites are old-fashioned omnis as well. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, RAvirani said:

The same equipment is up on a site in Newcastle and a site in the Laurelhurst neighborhood. Both the Crystal Mountain sites are old-fashioned omnis as well. 

Do you know what RAN is behind those Omni's? LTE (bands?) are they pushing any NR through them? Very curious

 

edit: I guess I could check cellmapper etc but you might know more nuance!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, xmx1024 said:

Do you know what RAN is behind those Omni's? LTE (bands?) are they pushing any NR through them? Very curious

Those are usually left over from the initial AWS deployment, so all run B13/B66 with support for BC0/BC1 (although that’s been shut off on most sites). No NR.

Sites with the later Ericsson radios got an OTA update and broadcast B2. On those sites, a B5 OTA update was also available (and tested), but ultimately rolled back. Putting up all that power/spectrum severely degraded the B13 output. 

The site atop Crystal Mountain is another story and uses the same setup as the site on the ridge near Neilton. These antennas were selected for their vertical beamwidth.

Most modern directional antennas have small vertical beamwidths and would require extreme downtilt to cover the road next to a steep ridge. Thus, they would have a severely limited coverage footprint beyond the road. Omnis can be a better choice in these instances, especially when there’s LoS to the coverage objective (since they’ll generally have lower gain figures).

Omnis also don’t run in to the horizontal sector edge problem, which can be difficult to optimize for with directional antennas that have complex or irregular 3D gain profiles. That’s why on a lot of sites on mountains, you’ll see wider antennas used. For example, the Verizon site on Joyce Ridge has three sectors with 80-degree HBW antennas. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, RAvirani said:

Those are usually left over from the initial AWS deployment, so all run B13/B66 with support for BC0/BC1 (although that’s been shut off on most sites). No NR.

Sites with the later Ericsson radios got an OTA update and broadcast B2. On those sites, a B5 OTA update was also available (and tested), but ultimately rolled back. Putting up all that power/spectrum severely degraded the B13 output. 

The site atop Crystal Mountain is another story and uses the same setup as the site on the ridge near Neilton. These antennas were selected for their vertical beamwidth.

Most modern directional antennas have small vertical beamwidths and would require extreme downtilt to cover the road next to a steep ridge. Thus, they would have a severely limited coverage footprint beyond the road. Omnis can be a better choice in these instances, especially when there’s LoS to the coverage objective (since they’ll generally have lower gain figures).

Omnis also don’t run in to the horizontal sector edge problem, which can be difficult to optimize for with directional antennas that have complex or irregular 3D gain profiles. That’s why on a lot of sites on mountains, you’ll see wider antennas used. For example, the Verizon site on Joyce Ridge has three sectors with 80-degree HBW antennas. 

It’s a neat and seemingly valid / effective strategy that, at least from my understanding, is only really used by VZW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anyone know what the status of the tower at S Meridian and 31st Ave SE. They put the equipment up in June of last year and there has been no work done since then. It serves such a big area, that during rush hour you can't even stream music, so N41 is needed bad. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/23/2024 at 2:09 PM, RAvirani said:

That’s good to hear.

While AT&T has the latest and greatest up on the CC monopole, I believe Verizon is still running omnis on top of the bowling alley there. That whole area really needs some love from Verizon. 

Seems like Verizon is giving it the love you requested. They submitted a permit in October to Colo on the CC monopole. My guess is they take the slot the old Sprint/Clearwire slot that T-Mo doesn't need/want. https://permitsearch.mybuildingpermit.com/PermitDetails/WIR23-00739/Kirkland

19 hours ago, cjauregui said:

Does anyone know what the status of the tower at S Meridian and 31st Ave SE. They put the equipment up in June of last year and there has been no work done since then. It serves such a big area, that during rush hour you can't even stream music, so N41 is needed bad. 

If you mean the site in Puyallup, it like T-Mo has submitted an application to upgrade the fiber backhaul to that site. This is a common reason for them to not take a site live even after upgrade/conversion (see the Cedar Park site I mention in this thread). In this case, it looks like the permit to upgrade the backhaul expires at the beginning of April, so the site will likely go live in the next 2-6 months (depending on how long it takes them to do their testing).

https://permits.puyallupwa.gov/Portal/Permit/StatusReference?referenceNumber=PRFUP20231663

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, PedroDaGr8 said:

Seems like Verizon is giving it the love you requested. They submitted a permit in October to Colo on the CC monopole.

Yes—I’m involved in that project :). There may be some small cells coming soon too ;).

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, RAvirani said:

Yes—I’m involved in that project :). There may be some small cells coming soon too ;).

Ahh congrats!

Verizon loves their small cells in Kirkland, lots of them everywhere. So I am not surprised at that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...