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T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2


lilotimz

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And that's what he was saying. Until devices support it.

 

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He said that there was no proof of 256 qam from the fcc on the Note 7 and he also said no device can do 64.

 

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He said that there was no proof of 256 qam from the fcc on the Note 7 and he also said no device can do 64.

 

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And that still holds true. I eagerly await the FCC recertification.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X

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But does this mean Sprint variants also have this capability?

 

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S7 / S7e / GN7 is one hardware model for all carriers.

 

Also I expect all these to be recertified for 256QAM downlink operations since these are the eNB T-mobile uses. 

 

NSN FRIE

 

NSN FXFC

 

NSN FXFB

 

NSN FRIG

 

NSN FRLB

 

NSN FRCG

 

Ericsson RRUS11 B12 

 

Ericsson RRUS32 B2

 

Ericsson RRUS32 B66

 

Ericsson AIR21 B4/2 

 

Ericsson AIR32 B4 / 2 

 

(also Air21 B12 / Air32 B12 + RRUS11 B2 / RRUS11 B12 / RRUS12 B2 / RRUS12 B4)

 

Expecting these to also get 64QAM recertification. 

 

S7

 

S7e

 

GN7

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Seems they have been having the last laugh for a while now. Sprint was talking the 4x4 Or 8x8 MIMO 256 QAM  in 2014 at the Chicago demonstration. 

 

http://www.lightreading.com/mobile/4g-lte/sprint-promises-180mbit-s-peaks-in-2015/d/d-id/709518

 

I asked here if this was possible and I was told no. So Now Tmobile is launching 4x4 MIMO and it seems to be a reality. 

 

Looks like Tmobile beat all the major carriers to the punch with 4x4 MIMO and 256 QAM.  I wonder how long it will take for Sprint and the other carriers to respond to this.

 

Tmobile press release

https://newsroom.t-mobile.com/news-and-blogs/lte-advanced.htm

 

List of 4x4 MIMO markets

https://newsroom.t-mobile.com/doc_download.cfm?doc_id=216

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Wouldn't T-Mobile users have to have a very good and clean signal to benefit from 256QAM? Seems like it may only benefit users who live really close to a cell and don't have much interference.

Pretty much but don't forget about tmobiles extremely dense urban networks in major markets where congestion are more likely to occur.

 

In such cases 256QAM down and 64QAM up would provide a very noticeable boost.

 

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Wouldn't T-Mobile users have to have a very good and clean signal to benefit from 256QAM? Seems like it may only benefit users who live really close to a cell and don't have much interference.

Yes.  And people who are eating up this T-Mobile announcement are buying into smoke and mirrors.  Both 256-QAM and 64-QAM utilization almost certainly will be under 10 percent of the time. 

 

A great comparison is my cable modem downlink, since it uses 256-QAM 100 percent of the time.  But that is over a shielded coaxial cable, and my received downlink signal is a fairly consistent -70 dBm with a 33 dB SINR.  How often is that signal level and quality available in the macro RF environment?

 

Now, look at the flip side, my cable modem uplink modulation is QPSK or 64-QAM.  For the sake of argument, we will look only at 64-QAM, the higher order of the two.  My cable modem uplink Tx power is a largely stable 46 dBm.  Compare that to a handset uplink Tx power that typically maxes out no greater than 23 dBm -- about 200 times lower power.

 

You know, people criticize Sprint because they are not on band 41 often enough to their liking.  Well, T-Mobile users are going to be utilizing 256-QAM and 64-QAM far less often than that.  However, adaptive modulation lurks underneath the hood, while band selection is more visible to end users.  So, people will be oblivious to the fact they are rarely, if ever actually using 256-QAM and 64-QAM.  They just see the announcement of higher peak speeds and think, "Ooh, new, shiny."

 

AJ

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T-Mobile has launched more LTE Advanced tech than any carrier on planet Earth. They do deserve credit for that. 

 

What T-Mobile should be called on is "more spectrum per customer". That's only really true in markets where they can toss in a 20x20 block. Verizon can do that over most of the continental United States. If you're in one of those urban (primarily) markets, great. If not, Verizon is likely going to be faster. That's the issue I see here. Not to mention a lot of the expansion coverage is not exactly deep. Verizon has deeper cell density on rural, so if you travel out of the city at all, that is something that has to be considered. Same for AT&T. T-Mobile still has a ways to go on adding sites for rural even with band 12 tossed in the mix. 

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Yes. And people who are eating up this T-Mobile announcement are buying into smoke and mirrors. Both 256-QAM and 64-QAM utilization almost certainly will be under 10 percent of the time.

 

You know, people criticize Sprint because they are not on band 41 often enough to their liking. Well, T-Mobile users are going to be utilizing 256-QAM and 64-QAM far less often than that. However, adaptive modulation lurks underneath the hood, while band selection is more visible to end users. So, people will be oblivious to the fact they are rarely, if ever actually using 256-QAM and 64-QAM. They just see the announcement of higher peak speeds and think, "Ooh, new, shiny."

 

AJ

My initial thought to this was the comparison to the B41 short umbrella at the macro layer compared to B25/B26.

 

You get much higher capacity (b/Hz) compared to edge of cell.

 

 

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T-Mobile has launched more LTE Advanced tech than any carrier on planet Earth. They do deserve credit for that. 

I don't know about that.  I think SK Telecom still takes the cake here.  Like they just got LTE-M deployed nationwide. 

 

A Google shows that SK Telecom potentially started with 256QAM and 4x4 MIMO back in June under LTE-A Pro. 

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My initial thought to this was the comparison to the B41 short umbrella at the macro layer compared to B25/B26.

 

You get much higher capacity (b/Hz) compared to edge of cell.

 

In a typical Sprint market, band 41 utilization almost certainly will be greater than 256-QAM utilization.  Band 41 may have a "short umbrella" in the macro environment compared to that of band 25 and band 26.  However, the 256-QAM umbrella will be even shorter, significantly so.

 

AJ

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In a typical Sprint market, band 41 utilization almost certainly will be greater than 256-QAM utilization.  Band 41 may have a "short umbrella" in the macro environment compared to that of band 25 and band 26.  However, the 256-QAM umbrella will be even shorter, significantly so.

 

AJ

 

Won't stop people from standing next to a cell site and upload screenshots of speedtests.

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In a typical Sprint market, band 41 utilization almost certainly will be greater than 256-QAM utilization. Band 41 may have a "short umbrella" in the macro environment compared to that of band 25 and band 26. However, the 256-QAM umbrella will be even shorter, significantly so.

 

AJ

Without a doubt, B41 util > 256QAM framing in a traditional macro grid.

 

However the principal at a zoomed out view holds true in that there is a ton of capacity closer to the center of the cell, albeit B41 has a much larger umbrella, and a more gradual taper with 64QAM->16QAM->QPSK across 20-60 MHz versus 256QAM->64QAM small radius across 5-20 MHz. Maybe more with CA.

 

 

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That was some shade TUH. I'm sure Sprint will come back with their famous line, "We have more spectrum than any wireless carrier"

 

Honestly opinion, I don't think we will see Sprint fully blossom until we get closer to 5G.

 

 

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I agree with this. Especially since I'e read things about 5G being on 5ghz and so on, Sprint's band 41 is the prime beachfront spectrum of 5G, and with 120mhz ought to lead the competition by alot, so long as Sprint gets the sites up for it, along with getting all of the necessary equipment on all of their sites.

 

What I'm a bit confused by this news T-Mobile announced, is where AT&T is with this. Does AT&T have anything like this planned, because I sure am not hearing anything about it online.

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Won't stop people from standing next to a cell site and upload screenshots of speedtests.

 

This is why I like SCP readings in speed tests. Then we can see from RSRP readings if someone is close to an antenna.

 

To be fair, I usually get the fastest readings 1/10th of a mile away from a tower. I'm sure this science is different in a rural area like mine on a network calibrated for band 13 that blasts signal out in a strong fashion.

 

Example: I live almost a mile away from a tower and max out 50 mbps backhaul.

 

Screenshot_20160906-234257_zpshkngrj8e.p

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This is why I like SCP readings in speed tests. Then we can see from RSRP readings if someone is close to an antenna.

 

To be fair, I usually get the fastest readings 1/10th of a mile away from a tower. I'm sure this science is different in a rural area like mine on a network calibrated for band 13 that blasts signal out in a strong fashion.

 

Example: I live almost a mile away from a tower and max out 50 mbps backhaul.

 

Screenshot_20160906-234257_zpshkngrj8e.p

What's QAM

I agree with this. Especially since I'e read things about 5G being on 5ghz and so on, Sprint's band 41 is the prime beachfront spectrum of 5G, and with 120mhz ought to lead the competition by alot, so long as Sprint gets the sites up for it, along with getting all of the necessary equipment on all of their sites.

 

What I'm a bit confused by this news T-Mobile announced, is where AT&T is with this. Does AT&T have anything like this planned, because I sure am not hearing anything about it online.

 

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In rural areas, there is less interference from other devices and surrounding towers. So while you may get lower RSRP as you drive away from a tower, you probably maintain a really good signal to noise ratio for the most part.

 

No, not necessarily.  The opposite can be true.  Less ground clutter to block or attenuate signal between sites can mean more interference between sites.

 

AJ

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What's QAM

 

T-Mobile has more QAMs for stronger Hzs, faster dBms, and better GBs.

 

AJ

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No, not necessarily. The opposite can be true. Less ground clutter to block or attenuate signal between sites can mean more interference between sites.

 

AJ

I have seen this happen in a lot of wide open areas of the plains, especially in places with moderate density. Like near towns in Eastern North Dakota.

 

Using Tapatalk on Note 8.0

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If ever there were a place flat as the bottom of a bathtub it would be far Eastern ND....

Flattest place I know of on earth. And I've been a lot places.

 

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