Softbank - New Sprint - Discussion

[dnicekid]

Okay, Can't sprint redo the antennas on the towers and run all the lines while waiting for back haul?    Then once the back haul is done connect everything? I mean, why wait for back haul, get what you can done. I mean EVERYTHING! Put up the 800/1900/2500 and start MV like Robert suggested since there is "time". That way once the back haul is in there is no more wait.

 

It seems we wait for 3g, then for 800 voice, then for back haul, then for lte? That doesnt include 800 lte or 25/2600.

The best teams are the ones who can still manage when things dont fall into place as planned, they "audible" How about sprint

rethinking parts of the nv to include the back haul delays and finding a solution instead of letting these "contractors" dictate the "play" 

 

Lets use NY as an example, if ny is completely upgraded to 98% the rest are back haul, get those guys out over to New Haven, CT. now New Haven could have 2x people working on towers. Once new haven is done up to Hartford, CT and so on. It would be like a wave, once the metro area is done you can still have crews to do the outskirts.

[Boosted20V]

Sprint IS upgrading equipment in some cases LONG before backhaul arrives, so I'm not seeing what your point is?

[travismheim]

Okay, Can't sprint redo the antennas on the towers and run all the lines while waiting for back haul? Then once the back haul is done connect everything? I mean, why wait for back haul, get what you can done. I mean EVERYTHING! Put up the 800/1900/2500 and start MV like Robert suggested since there is "time". That way once the back haul is in there is no more wait.

They are already doing this on full build sites. Almost every site in my city is completed hardware wise and is just waiting on back haul. In fact most of my market is in the same situation. Alternative back haul such as microwave in the mean time would be nice, but how much would that cost?

 

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[afazel]

They are already doing this on full build sites. Almost every site in my city is completed hardware wise and is just waiting on back haul. In fact most of my market is in the same situation. Alternative back haul such as microwave in the mean time would be nice, but how much would that cost?

 

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Less than an unhappy customer base that is looking to switch, I'm sure.

[lilotimz]

 

 

Robert

 

I had to dig this up Robert. Beamforming is completely possible today with a single capable 8T8R panel antenna. China Mobile, utilizing the same Alcatel-Lucent & Nokia equipment are already utilizing beamforming via single antennas with the same equipment that they're deploying in the US.

 

See this from ALU http://www2.alcatel-lucent.com/techzine/8t8r-radio-modules-transform-lte-tdd-deployments/ & this white paper from this summer of 2013. http://edu.tta.or.kr/sub3/down.php?No=146&file=1_LTE_TDD.pdf

 

The new single antenna setups are also apparently much better than the old multiple antenna setups according to the paper. 

 

Thoughts?

[dnicekid]

Sprint IS upgrading equipment in some cases LONG before backhaul arrives, so I'm not seeing what your point is?

And the roll out is still dragging in many places-  a LONG time. Sprint needs to move faster 

 

If the back haul is the hold up, while they are waiting finish the entire upgrade where possible... completely not just a piece at a time- Where it is possible.

[JosefTor]

And the roll out is still dragging in many places- a LONG time. Sprint needs to move faster

 

If the back haul is the hold up, while they are waiting finish the entire upgrade where possible... completely not just a piece at a time- Where it is possible.

I thought Sprint has turned a corner in many markets with fairly good 4g to most. Plus, I've seen a pickup in the number of acceptances in a lot of markets... Perhaps not 4g, but laying the groundwork for 800 and 2600. Whereabouts are you at?

[dnicekid]

I thought Sprint has turned a corner in many markets with fairly good 4g to most. Plus, I've seen a pickup in the number of acceptances in a lot of markets... Perhaps not 4g, but laying the groundwork for 800 and 2600. Whereabouts are you at?

I am in Springfield, Mass. Sprint has done a better job the last few months getting the 1900 deployed, I wouldn't call it turning the corner you would have to get Robert or Aj to give their thoughts on that. In many places towers are 4g but the consistency isnt there yet. In my area speeds are not impressive but usable. If I travel down towards Hartford, ct the speeds actually get better. 

 

Having waited so long for upgrades, that didnt seem to do to much (3g) I just don't see the sense of urgency from sprint. Over here, all we constantly hear is the negatives with Sprint. - It get a little boring- I am sure its like that in some other areas as well.

 

I am unaware of any different marketing other than the Framily commercials, If a market is complete why not advertise in it, tell everyone... I really want to see Sprint get back in the game and be a force.

[CrimsonKnightDX]

http://www.fiercewireless.com/special-reports/3g4g-wireless-network-latency-how-did-verizon-att-sprint-and-t-mobile-compa-1

 

 

 

Once the network vision becomes more deployed, do you think Sprints latency will improve?

[S4GRU]

http://www.fiercewireless.com/special-reports/3g4g-wireless-network-latency-how-did-verizon-att-sprint-and-t-mobile-compa-1

 

 

 

Once the network vision becomes more deployed, do you think Sprints latency will improve?

 

I don't trust OpenSignal.  I find their speed tests and pings to not be accurate in my observations.  Additionally, I take issue with both their AT&T and Tmo HSPA+ ping times.  I never get below 150ms WCDMA pings...EVER.  Not in any market, not on any device.  Most of the time, they are 175-300ms.  So something is not right.  Good performing Sprint EVDO/eHRPD pings are way better than good performing AT&T/Tmo WCDMA in my observations.

 

And since this is crowdsourced data, people may be more likely to check their Sprint performance when things are bad, versus when they are good.  I just wouldn't put any credence on these findings at all.

 

Robert

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

I'm calling BS on this. I've never had my B25 LTE pings higher than 75ms. They are usually always sub 58ms. Lately, they've been down in the 30ms range.

 

As for EVDO pings, pre NV they were always high. Now they're mostly below 100ms unless it's an overburdened site/sector or a legacy site.

[utiz4321]

I am not all that knowledgeable but is a 25 ms differences important to any function that might be preformed on a smartphone. If not this is not an artivle that should have even been written.

[dnicekid]

I was just wondering about my pings and then I saw this. I have a nex 5 now and I see LTE more, but today I was pinging from 800-1300! I couldn't believe it. My DL speeds were slower than up. Very rarely do I see less than ~150ms for a ping. When I do I am usually in Connecticut or Boston and my speeds are better, but not around my area.

 

 

It could just be the app (sensorly) at home on wifi my ping is 600+ and using ookla on wifi ping is always under 60ms

[MrZorbatron]

I'm calling BS on this. I've never had my B25 LTE pings higher than 75ms. They are usually always sub 58ms. Lately, they've been down in the 30ms range. As for EVDO pings, pre NV they were always high. Now they're mostly below 100ms unless it's an overburdened site/sector or a legacy site.

 

I see 65-120 generally on LTE, 80-140 on EVDO EHRPD and about the same with Rev.A.

[anthony.spina97]

Well this is a typical test on my home tower that serves the most popular tourist attraction in NC (Concord Mills Mall) and also serves Charlotte Motor Speedway. And the ping time is actually higher than what I usually get (normally it's sub-100).

 

Anyways, I feel like New Sprint is doing something right if I can get faster speeds on 3G than many people can get on Verizon LTE.

 

-Anthony

 

 

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[caspar347]

Well this is a typical test on my home tower that serves the most popular tourist attraction in NC (Concord Mills Mall) and also serves Charlotte Motor Speedway. And the ping time is actually higher than what I usually get (normally it's sub-100).

 

Anyways, I feel like New Sprint is doing something right if I can get faster speeds on 3G than many people can get on Verizon LTE.

 

-Anthony

 

 

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Is there a DAS in the mall? I know we have one in Carolina Place in Charlotte. If there isn't, that's an awesome speed for such a burdened site.

[anthony.spina97]

Is there a DAS in the mall? I know we have one in Carolina Place in Charlotte. If there isn't, that's an awesome speed for such a burdened site.

I'm pretty sure there isn't one. Something I do have to point out is this is at 11ish at night and on the sector facing away from the mall

 

-Anthony

[The Dave]

Lately I've seen pings as low as 20 ms with Sprint band 25 LTE. The only time I've ever seen 100 ms or more is if I do a speedtest with a -120 signal just for shits and giggles. It's kind of amazing how fast your connection can be at levels considered "unusable". Sure, I've seen some 200-300 ms pings, but pulling a couple mbps on a fringe signal is impressive.

[Rawvega]

Sprint 10-K

 

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/140224/s10-k.html

 

Pretty dry reading and not much in there that we don't already know around here. 

 

 

As of the date of the Clearwire Acquisition, Clearwire had deployed WiMAX technology on approximately 17,000 cell towers and was in the process of deploying 4G LTE technology using the 2.5GHz spectrum on approximately 5,000 of these sites, which has now been completed. We plan to expand the 2.5 GHz 4G LTE deployment to approximately 5,000 more legacy Clearwire sites. In addition, we plan to cease using WiMAX technology by the end of 2015. We have also evaluated our consolidated cell tower portfolio, including the 17,000 cell towers obtained in the Clearwire Acquisition, and identified approximately 6,000 redundant sites that we expect to decommission and terminate the underlying leases. We expect lease exit costs recorded in future periods associated with these sites to range between approximately $50 million to $100 million on a net present value basis. The timing of lease exit charges will be dependent upon the date we cease utilizing these sites without future economic benefit. 

 

We expect the majority of the efforts to roll out 4G LTE on our 800 MHz and 2.5 GHz spectrum bands to be completed by the end of 2015. In October 2013, we announced Sprint SparkSM , which is an enhanced LTE network capability that analyzes our three spectrum bands of LTE and connects a device to the most optimal band available in the area. We expect the deployment period for this technology to correspond with the roll out of 4G LTE on our 800 MHz and 2.5 GHz spectrum bands. The cost to complete these initiatives to modernize our network will be significant. We expect capital expenditures of approximately $8 billion in 2014. 

 

Ultimately, we expect these initiatives to bring financial benefit to the Company through migration to one common network, which is expected to reduce network maintenance and operating costs through capital efficiencies, reduced energy costs, lower roaming expenses, backhaul savings, and reduction in total cell sites as well as improvements to the quality of service to subscribers

 

 

[cdk]

Sprint 10-K

 

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/140224/s10-k.html

 

Pretty dry reading and not much in there that we don't already know around here. 

including the 17,000 cell towers obtained in the Clearwire Acquisition, and identified approximately 6,000 redundant sites that we expect to decommission and terminate the underlying leases.

 

I don't recall seeing an estimated number of Clear sites to be shut down before. I wonder if the 6,000 redundant sites are just those that are collocated with existing Sprint sites or if that includes other Clear sites to be shutdown...

[KD8JBF]

I don't recall seeing an estimated number of Clear sites to be shut down before. I wonder if the 6,000 redundant sites are just those that are collocated with existing Sprint sites or if that includes other Clear sites to be shutdown...

 

I'm assuming that they would be Co-Located...Especially with the 2.5 Ghz Spectrum, they would need more density and wouldn't want to kill leases on sites they may need to fill gaps....unless they are literally right next to each other...Which I've seen that too...

[cdk]

I'm assuming that they would be Co-Located...Especially with the 2.5 Ghz Spectrum, they would need more density and wouldn't want to kill leases on sites they may need to fill gaps....unless they are literally right next to each other...Which I've seen that too...

 

That is exactly the case I am thinking of. As an example, there is a Clear site (protection) about a 1/4 mile away for a Sprint site near me. If this was downtown Manhattan I could see both surviving, but its not, its Woodside, DE. I would suspect that the majority of the 6000 are co-located, but it would be interesting to know how many aren't.

[cdk]

Maybe one of the sources will provide the location of the 6000. It would make another great map!

[JWMaloney]

I'm assuming that they would be Co-Located...Especially with the 2.5 Ghz Spectrum, they would need more density and wouldn't want to kill leases on sites they may need to fill gaps....unless they are literally right next to each other...Which I've seen that too...

 

I'm assuming that they might kill leases on towers that are redundant to PCS spacing, then acquire new leases on rooftops and within buildings and on utility poles and deploy small cells.

[jefbal99]

We expect the majority of the efforts to roll out 4G LTE on our 800 MHz and 2.5 GHz spectrum bands to be completed by the end of 2015. In October 2013, we announced Sprint SparkSM , which is an enhanced LTE network capability that analyzes our three spectrum bands of LTE and connects a device to the most optimal band available in the area. We expect the deployment period for this technology to correspond with the roll out of 4G LTE on our 800 MHz and 2.5 GHz spectrum bands. 

 

I this is the first time I've seen in writing that Spark is not just Band 41, but all three LTE bands, 25, 26, and 41.