Jump to content
ReyBanz

Network Vision/LTE - East Michigan Market (Detroit/Flint/Ann Arbor/Tri-Cities)

Recommended Posts

10 hours ago, mikejeep said:

 

I'm still 50/50 on whether or not these are a glitch (scan?) or actual connections (however brief they may be). I kept seeing quick flashes of B17 in an area with no usable Sprint signal so I took my AT&T test phone over there and confirmed the PCI/GCI/TAC of B17 there, and it matched what I was seeing on my Sprint phone. On at least one occasion I did have an active data connection that held for longer than usual as well.

 

My thinking (whatever that's worth) is if you get an actual legitimate GCI, you connected. If not, it was a scan.

 

(Might be worth moving this discussion to the SCP thread or a new one, this isn't specific to MI nor do I want to clog up the thread..)

 

-Mike

The issue for me is that it happens to me regularly in SCP.  But never in NSG or Engineering Screen.  Just SCP.  And I monitor NSG a lot.  And I have never seen it do that once.  And NSG is rapidly updating on the fly.  It's not a slow data refresher.

Robert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The issue for me is that it happens to me regularly in SCP.  But never in NSG or Engineering Screen.  Just SCP.  And I monitor NSG a lot.  And I have never seen it do that once.  And NSG is rapidly updating on the fly.  It's not a slow data refresher.
Robert
NSG loads the Qualcomm debug interface and somehow tricks it into outputting locally instead of via USB (possibly some kind of kernel loopback device?). If you connect the phone to your computer and run software such as Actix or TEMS, then load NSG, the computer loses the connection. Likewise, if NSG is running, it prevents Qualcomm diagnostics over USB and the software can't find the phone. As soon as NSG exits, the phone appears.

So NSG is getting its data directly from the modem. The engineering screens may be similar and bypass the Android API? SCP has to wait for Android to refresh its modem data, which seemingly isn't an atomic operation. I'm curious if you see it in other apps that use the Android API, such as Cell Mapper or LTE Discovery?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, ingenium said:

NSG loads the Qualcomm debug interface and somehow tricks it into outputting locally instead of via USB (possibly some kind of kernel loopback device?). If you connect the phone to your computer and run software such as Actix or TEMS, then load NSG, the computer loses the connection. Likewise, if NSG is running, it prevents Qualcomm diagnostics over USB and the software can't find the phone. As soon as NSG exits, the phone appears.

So NSG is getting its data directly from the modem. The engineering screens may be similar and bypass the Android API? SCP has to wait for Android to refresh its modem data, which seemingly isn't an atomic operation. I'm curious if you see it in other apps that use the Android API, such as Cell Mapper or LTE Discovery?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

That's great info.  And coupled with that, it makes me even more convinced there is not an actual connection occurring.  If so, given the way NSG takes directly from the modem, it would be showing that data the instant it was connecting.  Yet it has never happened to me in NSG.  I use Cellmapper a lot in the background.  But I find watching the Cellmapper connection screen difficult to glance at while driving.  So I never monitor it.

Of course, it doesn't seem like it's an SCP error.  The app isn't doing anything wrong, it would just be that these phantom connections are being reported to SCP from Android.  It is contaminating its reporting data when it scans and reports it.  Then SCP populates that data from Android.  Even though a bona fide connection did not actually happen.

Other things that make me think these are not connections...It happens to me with Project Fi SIM too.  If I am connected to Sprint or US Cellular or T-Mobile, it happens to me too and the PLMN ID stays with whomever I was connected to last.  In addition to Sprint, I've seen US Cellular B4, US Cellular B17, US Cellular B41, US Cellular B12 and T-Mobile B5, T-Mobile B26, T-Mobile B41, etc., etc.  I believe Android OS gets some data from these scans, and it doesn't get a new PLMN ID because there was no actual connection.  It reports out the data it received in the scan and mixes stale data that it did not receive, like PLMNID.  Voila.  Of course, all hypothesis on my part.  But it matches what I've seen.

And Project Fi does not roam on AT&T LTE.   And neither does US Cellular nor T-Mobile.  But it freely populates AT&T LTE channel locations all the same.  Because it is in an unlocked every band device and those AT&T channels are being scanned looking for a Sprint, T-Mobile or US Cellular connection.

I am convinced these are other bands scans showing up in the connection data from Android OS.  And the best I can recollect, this only happens when I have a really weak signal and it is actively scanning for anything.  To keep from dropping completely.  And it seems to only affect me when I'm driving and signal intensity and proximity is randomly changing.  Most often in conjunction with band locking in my instances.

The phone is definitely reporting the signals.  And it probably was trying to connect with them.  Much of the information is accurate about what it's reporting, like channel assignment.  Giving us hope that something great is happening.  It's just not a live and usable connection.  Scanning is still ongoing. 

I'm not convinced something good is happening.  We just are seeing a little more behind the scenes of scanning, and misreporting of that data.  I could be wrong.  But I see this error frequently.  Nearly daily.  And sometimes, a dozen times in an hour.  It can be really annoying when trying to locate weak and distant new B26 sites.  Like here in Washington State and over there in Michigan.

Robert

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I just made an exciting discovery. I picked up an iPhone 5s without an active service plan to test bands in my area and guess what I found?! Band 26 in Midtown Detroit. See for yourself! As expected, the site it connected to is only broadcasting a 3mhz channel. This is very exciting but unfortunatly I was standing right next to the site that has multiple B41 channels broadcasting(I'm aware this phone doesn't support band 41), however this site broadcasts a 10 mHz band 25 channel and possibly an additional 5 mhz channel. (I'm not sure the 5mhz could be coming from a different cell site). You would think that the site would place me on band 25 as priority considering I was about 100 feet away from the macro. Some network tuning needs to be done because there is no reason I should've connected to this band so close to the tower. Maybe its because its an iPhone 5s? I'm not sure. Either way its exciting to see this especially with my proximity to Canada. But if it forces everyone on this channel it will be completely unusable considering the population density of this area is 12,000 people per square mile....... Any thoughts on this?

IMG_0002[1].PNG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/1/2018 at 3:14 AM, vryan44 said:

Well, I just made an exciting discovery. I picked up an iPhone 5s without an active service plan to test bands in my area and guess what I found?! Band 26 in Midtown Detroit. See for yourself! As expected, the site it connected to is only broadcasting a 3mhz channel. This is very exciting but unfortunatly I was standing right next to the site that has multiple B41 channels broadcasting(I'm aware this phone doesn't support band 41), however this site broadcasts a 10 mHz band 25 channel and possibly an additional 5 mhz channel. (I'm not sure the 5mhz could be coming from a different cell site). You would think that the site would place me on band 25 as priority considering I was about 100 feet away from the macro. Some network tuning needs to be done because there is no reason I should've connected to this band so close to the tower. Maybe its because its an iPhone 5s? I'm not sure. Either way its exciting to see this especially with my proximity to Canada. But if it forces everyone on this channel it will be completely unusable considering the population density of this area is 12,000 people per square mile....... Any thoughts on this?

IMG_0002[1].PNG

I had to disable B26 on my Nexus 6P due to this exact issue.  My phone would camp on this or B41 (which was terribly over subscribed) in downtown Lansing, with zero thruput.  randomly I'd cycle thru B25 and get great service.  Ended up disabling both B26 & B41 for awhile.

I would think the priority would be B41->B25->B26, but who knows

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/2/2018 at 1:01 PM, jefbal99 said:

I had to disable B26 on my Nexus 6P due to this exact issue.  My phone would camp on this or B41 (which was terribly over subscribed) in downtown Lansing, with zero thruput.  randomly I'd cycle thru B25 and get great service.  Ended up disabling both B26 & B41 for awhile.

I would think the priority would be B41->B25->B26, but who knows

I agree completely

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay so I managed to make it out to that other wireline mobilitie site today(or yesterday lol whatever haha) It was getting dark so my photos are not the best but here is what I have. (Btw I also included some of the development going on in this area that may have been reason Sprint decided to locate a small cell here. That and well, its pretty close to Ford Field, Comerica Park and Little Caesars Arena.)

Again, sorry for the poor lighting but this is definitely another small cell connected by wire-line as apposed to relay. The last few images are construction for a massive development from Bedrock, which is affiliated with Rocket Fiber.(Both part of quicken loans if that matters) They could be providing the backhaul but unfortunately due to lighting the only wire-line on the utility poles i could spot with a name was Comcast; that's not to say there were many other lines on the utility poles. It was just to dark to spot. Anyway;  here it is: 

https://imgur.com/a/HTaHdmD

Any thoughts? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is one of a few mobilitie small cells I have found in the area. I'm wondering if it is sprint because there is no relay installed. Actually some that had the relay before has since been removed. It looks to be connected to a wire line network... The two underground communication hatches are on the sidewalk and the unnamed one in the landscaping, yards away from the site. As mentioned, one is unnamed and one says Comcast. Let me know what you guys think.

Just as a disclaimer, this site wasn't here about two weeks ago. (Midtown Detroit)

Also; Verizon is using a completely different vendor in SE Mich so I highly doubt this site is a verizon one. 

https://imgur.com/gallery/irfkNzk

If I have time i'd like to create a map of all the sprint small cells provided by mobility in SE Mich... stay tuned as my time is limited. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay so I managed to make it out to that other wireline mobilitie site today(or yesterday lol whatever haha) It was getting dark so my photos are not the best but here is what I have. (Btw I also included some of the development going on in this area that may have been reason Sprint decided to locate a small cell here. That and well, its pretty close to Ford Field, Comerica Park and Little Caesars Arena.)

Again, sorry for the poor lighting but this is definitely another small cell connected by wire-line as apposed to relay. The last few images are construction for a massive development from Bedrock, which is affiliated with Rocket Fiber.(Both part of quicken loans if that matters) They could be providing the backhaul but unfortunately due to lighting the only wire-line on the utility poles i could spot with a name was Comcast; that's not to say there were many other lines on the utility poles. It was just to dark to spot. Anyway;  here it is: 

https://imgur.com/a/HTaHdmD

Any thoughts? 

That box on the bottom is "new" (ie not on other installations). It looks like a fiber ONT, I believe you can see the thin fiber strand entering it on the bottom. So I would guess this is a fiber fed one.

 

The fact that Sprint is likely using different backhaul providers in the same area is exciting.

 

Were you able to get engineering screenshots? Or anything showing the earfcn of it? I'm curious if it uses a different earfcn than relay fed small cells.

 

Also, if you happen to have NSG, looking at signaling for what PLMNs are broadcast would be useful. It would tell us if a non-relay small cell could serve as a donor for other small cells or magic boxes.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/22/2018 at 11:47 PM, vryan44 said:

Okay so I managed to make it out to that other wireline mobilitie site today(or yesterday lol whatever haha) It was getting dark so my photos are not the best but here is what I have. (Btw I also included some of the development going on in this area that may have been reason Sprint decided to locate a small cell here. That and well, its pretty close to Ford Field, Comerica Park and Little Caesars Arena.)

 

Any thoughts? 

 

15 hours ago, ingenium said:

That box on the bottom is "new" (ie not on other installations). It looks like a fiber ONT, I believe you can see the thin fiber strand entering it on the bottom. So I would guess this is a fiber fed one.

 

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

The backhaul is connected to the SFP backhaul ports so that's fiber!

 

(left 2 = ethernet 802.3AT, right 2 = SFP)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, vryan44 said:

This is one of a few mobilitie small cells I have found in the area. I'm wondering if it is sprint because there is no relay installed. Actually some that had the relay before has since been removed. It looks to be connected to a wire line network... The two underground communication hatches are on the sidewalk and the unnamed one in the landscaping, yards away from the site. As mentioned, one is unnamed and one says Comcast. Let me know what you guys think.

Just as a disclaimer, this site wasn't here about two weeks ago. (Midtown Detroit)

Also; Verizon is using a completely different vendor in SE Mich so I highly doubt this site is a verizon one. 

https://imgur.com/gallery/irfkNzk

If I have time i'd like to create a map of all the sprint small cells provided by mobility in SE Mich... stay tuned as my time is limited. 

It's definitely a Sprint Site.  There is a Sprint Cascade ID on the equipment.  I looked it up and found it.  And like you point out it used to be a relay site.  Interestingly though, the site has been there over a year.  I found the Cascade ID in the system and there is a Google Map image from June 2017 showing it in place.  It shows the old relay too.  However, the change to direct backhaul is likely new.

Robert

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • large.unreadcontent.png.6ef00db54e758d06

  • gallery_1_23_9202.png

  • Posts

    • I think removing it and keeping it that way is cool.   Even TMobile didn't go as far as Sprint with 600/700MHz.  If Sprint ever had a B41 only device, then they should only show B41 coverage, but keep it the same color.  However, they could leave the API there to be used on a site like our local user here (forgot name/site name) for the more geeky users and to track B41 a little.  However, it needs a lot of work and a lot of updating.  
    • Not at all. Sprint has added Extended LTE (roaming treated as native LTE) to their maps without an issue in the past. I think it just has to do with the Band 41 coverage map being wrong and ultimately misleading customers about LTE coverage for months now. Until they fix it, they probably shouldn't even bring back that layer of the maps. It's perfectly fine to have a single LTE layer since that is what every other carrier does.
    • Fried peppers


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    • I m downloading iOS 12 I wanna check out the field test mode


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    • Do any of you think the removal of LTE Plus has anything to do with the new T-Mobile Roaming aggreement? I wonder if Sprint is planning on treating T-Mobile Roaming as native. If they did then getting rid of LTE Plus would make it easier to integrate T-Mobile coverage on their maps.
  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

×