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Debate on whether you should offload smartphone data on WiFi, even though you pay for "unlimited"


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With all this entitlement about unlimited data, Sprint should just stop selecting phones that come with WiFi capabilities. If that truly was their mindset "We offer unlimited data, so you don't need to offload data", they should just choose handsets that don't have WiFi capabilities. Let's see where that gets all of us Sprint users on the Now Network.

 

Edit - Before you liked it dedub, I forgot to put /sarcasm at the end.

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...which is still at the top ed of VZW's "loaded network" speed promises: 5-12 Mbps. If Verizon allows speeds to decrease below 5/2 in a given area' date=' then we know we're really in trouble. But for now the network is performing to spec.[/quote']

 

You mean like this?

 

Screenshot_2012-09-19-17-21-59_zps38b74def.png

 

Screenshot_2012-09-19-17-21-52_zpsb76b2628.png

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...which is still at the top ed of VZW's "loaded network" speed promises: 5-12 Mbps. If Verizon allows speeds to decrease below 5/2 in a given area, then we know we're really in trouble. But for now the network is performing to spec.

 

The wireless carriers are quoting 5-12Mbps (for VZW) and 5-8Mbps (for Sprint), not because of expected site usage burdens, but because of signal strength. Because LTE performance is so signal strength dependent, carriers know that they have to quote the outer third of a cell's performance as the stated network performance, and the inner third as peak for LTE.

 

In the Sprint FIT reports, they reference several times that the LTE speeds they will advertise are based on performance in the outer third of a cell in good conditions. Not based on anticipated heavy usage loads. I believe VZW is doing the same with their speeds. Their cells are just larger.

 

Also, based on Sprint LTE FIT reports, burdening the sector had little impact on performance until approximately 75% of the sector capacity was used. I think it was in the ballpark of a 20% performance drop from 0% to 75%. Once the sector reached 75% usage capacity, then performance steadily dropped off from 75% to 100%. At 100% capacity, performance declined approximately 75%. At 125%, the sector was suffering significant problems. The reports also stated that this was based on expected tonnage per user. And that higher amounts of light usage or lighter amount of heavy usage could yield differences.

 

With that said, if VZW LTE is dropping by this much, it would appear that VZW is at least exceeding a 75% of sector capacity (where these speeds are plummeting), and maybe more. So the threshold to failure appears to be much closer than you may realize, especially considering LTE usage is not static and VZW is adding LTE customers left and right. And then consider the iPhone onslaught about to occur.

 

So, to wrap up, in a well functioning LTE sector, signal strength is the most important factor for performance. And once speeds start dropping due to congestion, the sector is already running out of capacity. Pass/fail on a LTE carrier is a narrow threshold. In my estimation, VZW needs to keep adding capacity via additional LTE 750 sites at a very frenetic pace.

 

Robert

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With all this entitlement about unlimited data, Sprint should just stop selecting phones that come with WiFi capabilities. If that truly was their mindset "We offer unlimited data, so you don't need to offload data", they should just choose handsets that don't have WiFi capabilities. Let's see where that gets all of us Sprint users on the Now Network.

 

Edit - Before you liked it dedub, I forgot to put /sarcasm at the end.

 

I like it, sarcasm or not :D

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Yes. I feel entitled to use the service I pay for. :blink:

 

My point is that people that abuse the system (not necessarily you), drive changes to what we pay. Look at the recent hikes in TEP. I spend some time on different forums, and I'm aware of the many people that brick their phones without trying to fix them, rushing to get another because they can say it's a hardware/software defect. I know this a problem I am paying more for.

 

 

Sent from my Timex-Sinclair using Tapatalk

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The difference is in the marginal cost of bandwidth usage....

 

This is a stellar post and should be required reading for anyone interested in this issue. I could not care less whether the post supports my point of view; when someone takes the time to examine the issue using sound economic principles, we all benefit from that education.

 

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/2062-debate-on-whether-you-should-offload-smartphone-data-on-wifi-even-though-you-pay-for-unlimited/page__view__findpost__p__46573

 

Thank you, dmchscc...

 

AJ

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Even after NV is complete, you're not really going to see over 1.5M-2M with any consistency on a 3G connection.

 

That is very depressing to hear. For the last 2+ years Verizon has had a consistent 1.5-2.8M connection on 3G in my area. I only live in a town of 3,600 and Verizon has 4g LtE here for over a month now. I'm surrounded by towns of 90-14,000 population and the nearest city with over 40k population is a good 45 minutes away.

 

Now back to the main topic: I pay for unlimited so I will use the data when I feel like it. For a couple months I'd purposely stream youtube videos in HD on an already congested network because I got sick of "hmm I haven't used my phone all day. Now when I want to use it I'm at 1,000ms ping and 0.1Mbps download." I'm sorry, but if Sprint offers service like that I'll purposely burden it when I have no intention of watching the video I'm streaming.

 

If they're going continue advertising unlimited data to attract more customers to an already burdened network that is their fault, not ours. I have no responsibility in fixing Sprint's shortcomings.

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That is very depressing to hear. For the last 2+ years Verizon has had a consistent 1.5-2.8M connection on 3G in my area. I only live in a town of 3' date='600 and Verizon has 4g LtE here for over a month now. I'm surrounded by towns of 90-14,000 population and the nearest city with over 40k population is a good 45 minutes away.

 

Now back to the main topic: I pay for unlimited so I will use the data when I feel like it. For a couple months I'd purposely stream youtube videos in HD on an already congested network because I got sick of "hmm I haven't used my phone all day. Now when I want to use it I'm at 1,000ms ping and 0.1Mbps download." I'm sorry, but if Sprint offers service like that I'll purposely burden it when I have no intention of watching the video I'm streaming.

 

If they're going continue advertising unlimited data to attract more customers to an already burdened network that is their fault, not ours. I have no responsibility in fixing Sprint's shortcomings.[/quote']

 

I have used Verizon for work for a long time. 1.5Mbps+ speeds are not typical network wide. I would say I average 600k - 1.5Mbps. I sometimes get 200k - 300k speeds. I find just as many anomaly 2Mbps+ speeds around Albuquerque on VZW as Sprint.

 

Robert via Samsung Galaxy S-III 32GB using Forum Runner

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I offload more than many, I even offload 1x too :)

 

I would like to offload some of the Sprint subs in this thread. Let another carrier deal with them, and let them deal with another carrier. The grass is not always greener on the other side...

 

AJ

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I don't feel guilty one bit for utilizing my 4g service instead of latching on to any random or personal wifi spot.

 

Not to mention, you have no idea what kind of security a public wifi spot may or may not have, or what kind of user tracking they keep on your access.

 

Using a public wifi hotspot without a vpn is like, well I think you can figure it out.

 

Please do not "move the goalposts." Has anyone in this thread specifically advocated that you should Wi-Fi offload outside of your own home? I certainly have not. I have stated only that using EV-DO or LTE at home when you have your own Wi-Fi distributed broadband connection is irresponsible use of a shared resource. It is akin to not using your driveway but taking up valuable parking spaces on the street in front of your house simply because you pay property taxes that maintain the street.

 

AJ

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Tell us how you really feel.

 

I am telling you how I really feel because many of you in your shortsighted selfishness stand to ruin Network Vision for everyone. I intended to apologize in this thread for my gruff tone earlier today. But now you have succeeded in raising my ire again. Good freaking grief.

 

AJ

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Dan Hesse said during an interview with Charlie Rose (this was during the launch of the Palm Pre and the thick of the WiMax buildout) several years ago that with each new generation of wireless technology, the network becomes 5x more efficient, 5x faster, and 5x less expensive to operate. 5x more data at the same cost. 5x more users for the same spectrum.

 

LTE is a cheaper network for Sprint to maintain (buildout is expensive obviously, along with enhancing backhaul), and assuming Hesse's previous statement is still true then we should see unlimited data and fast speeds for quite some time to come.

 

Do I offload at home? I use an Airave to offload at home, but that's only because I have a very poor cellular signal in my home. If I had a strong signal I probably wouldn't. When I had a WiMax phone in a different city I didn't offload.

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I am telling you how I really feel because many of you in your shortsighted selfishness stand to ruin Network Vision for everyone.

 

Is it our fault Sprint is continuously advertising unlimited data to attract customers to an already overburdened network? If Sprint customers off-loaded their data to Wifi then they might as well just go with verizon and have a 2 or 4GB plan because most user won't use that much data when mostly connected to Wifi -- and others naturally don't use that much. We're not being irrational by not using Wifi. We're simply using what we pay for. If Sprint doesn't feel the same then they'll raise prices and customers will let their wallet do the talking.

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Is it our fault Sprint is continuously advertising unlimited data to attract customers to an already overburdened network? If Sprint customers off-loaded their data to Wifi then they might as well just go with verizon and have a 2 or 4GB plan because most user won't use that much data when mostly connected to Wifi -- and others naturally don't use that much.

 

Do you fail to understand that Sprint is fighting for its own existence in a market in which VZW and AT&T are continuously using anti competitive measures to stack the deck against the smaller players? To stay relevant, Sprint practically has no choice but to offer unlimited data. If Sprint did not offer unlimited data, then many of you would churn to VZW and AT&T, which would then gain even greater market share, even more dominance over the competition, and even more clout with which to implement anti consumer policies.

 

If you like Sprint as a competitive foil to those oligopolistic asshats VZW and AT&T, then stop screwing Sprint and the rest of us.

 

AJ

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Is it our fault Sprint is continuously advertising unlimited data to attract customers to an already overburdened network? If Sprint customers off-loaded their data to Wifi then they might as well just go with verizon and have a 2 or 4GB plan because most user won't use that much data when mostly connected to Wifi -- and others naturally don't use that much. We're not being irrational by not using Wifi. We're simply using what we pay for. If Sprint doesn't feel the same then they'll raise prices and customers will let their wallet do the talking.

 

So, instead of doing what you can to help ensure low service costs and unlimited data, you're going to almost actively do what you can to use as much network resources as possible?

 

No, we might as well not go to Verizon because they are significantly more expensive. However, they are faster, at least partially due to their policies. How exactly do the economics of an unlimited, faster, yet somehow cheaper carrier work? You seem to have some idea as you admit that Sprint might raise prices. But this is the weird thing, and it might really set me apart here: I don't want to pay more.

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If carriers want people to offload to wifi they should work on seamless handoff from cellular data to and from wifi. When are we getting that (and will it require new devices)?

 

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

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I am telling you how I really feel because many of you in your shortsighted selfishness stand to ruin Network Vision for everyone.

 

I guess we should all just *stop using the whole network altogether* since any use outside of offloading on your own home network will apparently cause the end of the world. /boggle

 

So, instead of doing what you can to help ensure low service costs and unlimited data, you're going to almost actively do what you can to use as much network resources as possible?

 

use <> abuse

 

Oh wait, even 'use' will cause the collapse of the world as we know it.

 

No, we might as well not go to Verizon because they are significantly more expensive. However, they are faster, at least partially due to their policies.

 

VZ was faster way before the newly instituted caps and tiered pricing.

 

And from posts and pictures posted, it does not look like the caps and tiered pricing is doing all that effective a job of preventing the bandwidth-opocalype.

 

How exactly do the economics of an unlimited, faster, yet somehow cheaper carrier work? You seem to have some idea as you admit that Sprint might raise prices. But this is the weird thing, and it might really set me apart here: I don't want to pay more.

 

Raising prices will have little to do with the bandwidth used, and more to do with competition (or lack of) and how much the average consumer will pay before churning elsewhere.

 

You don't, I don't, but apparently there are alot of vz and att customers that disagree.

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I guess we should all just *stop using the whole network altogether* since any use outside of offloading on your own home network will apparently cause the end of the world. /boggle

 

Take your straw man and go visit Oz.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

I debate people who make legitimate points, not commit fallacies.

 

AJ

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I offload onto wifi at home even with the airave providing evdo coverage. Even if I did have an LTE tower in my backyard I would probably still use wifi as it just makes sense.

 

I don't use wifi outside of the home much just due to the fact I am lazy and don't feel like doing the vpn connection. I never use open wifi without vpn.. Nor should anyone else. It's kinda like using a CB radio, anybody in range can hear your conversation.

 

Sent from my C64 w/Epyx FastLoad cartridge

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