Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market

[mirskyc]

8 minutes ago, lilotimz said:

Nope. 10+5 is the maximum without 100% cdma shutdown.

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But they are only doing 5+5 now. Doesn't that mean there is room before 100% cdma shutdown

[lilotimz]

But they are only doing 5+5 now. Doesn't that mean there is room before 100% cdma shutdown

Mhm. Considering it's NYC, there's no doubt refarming is needed to be done from sites that have more than 3 CDMA carriers live. So that's the restriction.

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[mirskyc]

7 minutes ago, lilotimz said:

Mhm. Considering it's NYC, there's no doubt refarming is needed to be done from sites that have more than 3 CDMA carriers live. So that's the restriction.

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I am never on 3G in NYC, The only time my phone drops off of LTE is in basements or elevators. But when that happens my phone is usually only on 1x800.  The only other time is in Penn Station. I find B26 usually drops around the same time EVDO drops.  Curious what the hold up is. 

[lilotimz]

I am never on 3G in NYC, The only time my phone drops off of LTE is in basements or elevators. But when that happens my phone is usually only on 1x800.  The only other time is in Penn Station. I find B26 usually drops around the same time EVDO drops.  Curious what the hold up is. 

Yes but that's your experience in the areas your transit. Sprint would have info on specific areas where such usage requirements are still high especially CDMA 1x voice usage.

Evdo may be relatively unloaded these days but the 1x carriers may not be considering volte is not live and calling plus is not widespread.

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[mirskyc]

1 minute ago, lilotimz said:

Yes but that's your experience in the areas your transit. Sprint would have info on specific areas where such usage requirements are still high especially CDMA 1x voice usage.

Evdo may be relatively unloaded these days but the 1x carriers may not be considering volte is not live and calling plus is not widespread.

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Of course.. I would prefer loosing all Evdo for increased LTE, but leaving the 1x voice carrier and 1x800. 

[lilotimz]

49 minutes ago, mirskyc said:

Of course.. I would prefer loosing all Evdo for increased LTE, but leaving the 1x voice carrier and 1x800. 

Ah but you forget that there are potentially multiple 1x Voice carriers to meet voice demand and people complain about 1x voice quality in several regions where cdma has been thinned. It's a delicate balancing act for sure when refarming spectrum. 

[WiWavelength]

1 hour ago, mirskyc said:

Of course.. I would prefer loosing all Evdo for increased LTE...

Whenever anyone "looses," we all lose a little bit of intelligence.

AJ

[mirskyc]

On 11/15/2017 at 1:42 AM, nexgencpu said:

Fastest speed I've ever hit.

This was taken on 37th St and 5th Ave..

 

Finally had time to go to this area. I was about to hit 30 to 45 Mbps at around 1PM. Uploads were anywhere from 2 to 6 Mbps. This is with just 3x CA. I hope Clear sites are the first to be upgraded to High Capacity equipment. 

[nexgencpu]

9 minutes ago, mirskyc said:

Finally had time to go to this area. I was about to hit 30 to 45 Mbps at around 1PM. Uploads were anywhere from 2 to 6 Mbps. This is with just 3x CA. I hope Clear sites are the first to be upgraded to High Capacity equipment. 

It would make sense to start with Clear sites. BTW in this area, I'm usually hitting between 40-60mbs during the day.

[nexgencpu]

Went shopping at Bay plaza mall today and not having that 3rd carrier in the Bronx is not really doing Sprint any favors in really high traffic locations. This was first time in a really long time that I've seen Sprint struggle in NYC.

TMobile had a very similar experience to Sprint. My sister's Verizon line on the other hand was running awesome. 

It's all about location.

[IamMrFamous07]

8 minutes ago, nexgencpu said:

Went shopping at Bay plaza mall today and not having that 3rd carrier in the Bronx is not really doing Sprint any favors in really high traffic locations. This was first time in a really long time that I've seen Sprint struggle in NYC.

TMobile had a very similar experience to Sprint. My sister's Verizon line on the other hand was running awesome. 

It's all about location.

Hopefully they deploy it soon and also deploy small cells with Altice’s backhaul 

[nexgencpu]

28 minutes ago, IamMrFamous07 said:

Hopefully they deploy it soon and also deploy small cells with Altice’s backhaul 

It seems to be a lack of contiguous B41 spectrum in the northern part of the BX. Waiting for non-contiguous B41 to be deployed, I hear devices are being seeded as we speak.

But in terms of small cells, Sprint has a sh#t ton already deployed in the Bronx.

[twospirits]

3 hours ago, nexgencpu said:

Went shopping at Bay plaza mall today and not having that 3rd carrier in the Bronx is not really doing Sprint any favors in really high traffic locations. This was first time in a really long time that I've seen Sprint struggle in NYC.

TMobile had a very similar experience to Sprint. My sister's Verizon line on the other hand was running awesome. 

It's all about location.

I go there usually once a month for the movies and I find the same thing. There are still some areas throughout the city that the signal is struggling. 

[nexgencpu]

42 minutes ago, twospirits said:

I go there usually once a month for the movies and I find the same thing. There are still some areas throughout the city that the signal is struggling. 

Until Sprint can at least deploy that third carrier it's gonna continue to be an issue. Densifying will help but capacity is really the issue since signal strength is usually good to excellent.

[Paynefanbro]

Found two small cells in Brooklyn near my home. Weirdly enough they're only broadcasting one carrier of Band 41 instead of the usual two. Also judging from the pings and the speeds they are either pretty loaded or haven't been set up correctly.

One had pings in the 60's with speeds reaching 20Mbps which is fine but the ping is high for what I've normally experienced in NYC. The other had pings of 100ms+ and speeds that never went over 5Mbps.

[nexgencpu]

4 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Found two small cells in Brooklyn near my home. Weirdly enough they're only broadcasting one carrier of Band 41 instead of the usual two. Also judging from the pings and the speeds they are either pretty loaded or haven't been set up correctly.

One had pings in the 60's with speeds reaching 20Mbps which is fine but the ping is high for what I've normally experienced in NYC. The other had pings of 100ms+ and speeds that never went over 5Mbps.

I believe this is a backhaul issue. Many small cells in the BX seem to have limited backhaul. Even when completely unloaded never going over 35mbs. 

But, they do get the job done, at least to relieve some congestion on the macro site.

[lilotimz]

I believe this is a backhaul issue. Many small cells in the BX seem to have limited backhaul. Even when completely unloaded never going over 35mbs. 
But, they do get there job done, at least to relieve come congestion on the macro site.

Many of then are running LTE relay for backhaul so that's about an average speed for a single carrier given the donor macro is probably a bit loaded.

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[Paynefanbro]

13 minutes ago, lilotimz said:

Many of then are running LTE relay for backhaul so that's about an average speed for a single carrier given the donor macro is probably a bit loaded.

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That actually makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

[nexgencpu]

29 minutes ago, lilotimz said:

Many of then are running LTE relay for backhaul so that's about an average speed for a single carrier given the donor macro is probably a bit loaded.

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If this is the case, hopefully with Altice now being in the picture they could feed these sites with proper fiber or at least coax sooner than later.

[Deval]

Interesting, wasn't aware of any UE relay sites here in NYC. Will have to ask some folks.

[Paynefanbro]

Something that I've noticed is that small cells that (I think) are being fed by LTE relay are only broadcasting 1 carrier of Band 41. So far both small cell sites that I have found in Brooklyn that are broadcasting 1 carrier have been extremely slow compared to ones that are boradcasting two carriers.

[ingenium]

Something that I've noticed is that small cells that (I think) are being fed by LTE relay are only broadcasting 1 carrier of Band 41. So far both small cell sites that I have found in Brooklyn that are broadcasting 1 carrier have been extremely slow compared to ones that are boradcasting two carriers.

Yes, relay small cells are limited to broadcasting a single carrier. Only fiber / non-relay small cells broadcast 2 carriers. It's the same in SF, though I haven't seen any relay fed ones there yet.

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[Paynefanbro]

5 hours ago, ingenium said:

Yes, relay small cells are limited to broadcasting a single carrier. Only fiber / non-relay small cells broadcast 2 carriers. It's the same in SF, though I haven't seen any relay fed ones there yet.

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It's especially weird to me because Sprint has a relationship with Altice USA and there isn't exactly a lack of fiber in NYC. Maybe Sprint is telling workers to set up the small cells in relay mode if backhaul isn't set up already just to get them online and maybe they'll make a second pass once backhaul is ready.

It's just weird seeing areas with 60ms+ pings and speeds <5Mbps on Band 41 when I am used to speeds of 30Mbps+.

[nexgencpu]

4 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

It's especially weird to me because Sprint has a relationship with Altice USA and there isn't exactly a lack of fiber in NYC. Maybe Sprint is telling workers to set up the small cells in relay mode if backhaul isn't set up already just to get them online and maybe they'll make a second pass once backhaul is ready.

It's just weird seeing areas with 60ms+ pings and speeds <5Mbps on Band 41 when I am used to speeds of 30Mbps+.

The Bronx has many sites fed by relay. In fact the small cell by my block is one of those. It gets the job done during off peak hours, but during peak hours it's less than ideal. 

Fortunately, John Saw mentioned even using Docsis for backhaul in Altice footprint, so here's to hoping those 20+ sites that I am aware of with relay some how get wired eventually.

[mirskyc]

13 hours ago, nexgencpu said:

The Bronx has many sites fed by relay. In fact the small cell by my block is one of those. It gets the job done during off peak hours, but during peak hours it's less than ideal. 

Fortunately, John Saw mentioned even using Docsis for backhaul in Altice footprint, so here's to hoping those 20+ sites that I am aware of with relay some how get wired eventually.

Altice is hitting 400mbps/40mbps in most areas for residential service, not sure if thats the max for business use as well but its 100% better than LTE relay

 

Is it safe to assume that all the former Clear Small Cells in NYC are currently being run off fiber or a wired connection. Was there such a thing as WiMax relay or the equipment for it back then? I would think LTE relay small cells are the ones that were added later on it allowed them to get them running quicker, not having to wait for fiber to be ran.